*Official* Third Test (Headingley, Leeds) 6–10 July

[mackembhoy]

Aren't you Aussie posters who keep telling us Marcus Harris is hopeless the same Aussie posters who told us Mitch Marsh was hopeless?

I just don't know what to believe any more.

Harris has the lowest average of any Australian opener ever I believe and already failed against England

So it's a fair shout to say he's not very good. Marsh just saves his best for us the prick.

 

[Spark]

He's not a better "seam up" bowler, for sure. It's an apples to oranges comparison anyway, which depends on conditions and stage of match, but Green doesn't appear anything that special either. But now you're just "moving the goalposts". The point is that he got the same mount of wickets far more economically in the very match you used as an example.

If your making batting concessions to beef up the fast bowling, it will be rare that I will agree with that (unless it's on a known batting superhighway or something). These fellas really need to rethink tactics, learn what a good bouncer actually is and how to use it.

I think Smith, Head and Marnus could all be decent if they spent some time on it. As long as it doesn't take away from their batting.

The tactics are one thing and that's to be set to one side, this bouncer barrage really isn't Green's game but it frankly isn't any of theirs so the persistence with it is not really a selection issue. Ultimately the point is about team balance and flexibility; if you give up a handful of runs an innings in order to use your strike bowlers in a more strike bowler role (Cummins in particular is seriously overbowling himself) that keeps them fresh and primed because you can rely on your all-rounder for a decent quality spell of bowling per session then that gets you that much closer to taking 20 wickets quickly, which is far more important - and has flow-on effects for your batsmen too.

In any case Green actually has a better Test batting record than his two competitors for that spot (Harris and Renshaw) so the point is moot. But nevertheless spin bowling part timers are in no way a replacement for a proper 5th bowling option; just look at how Murphy was (not) used in this game if you want to see how that would go with regards to workload. Or indeed the fact that Cummins didn't trust Head to bowl at all on the 5th day at Lord's when he probably needed to have a bowl to give the others a break.

 

[Ashes81]

I think the Aussies have become muddled in their thinking as regards field placings.

Right from the 1st ball of the series they set defensive fields with boundary riders.

Now you can argue as they won the 1st two tests, it worked but I think they won those tests despite those fields.

They've then carried on these fields right the way through our batting with some quite ridiculous fields to our lower order.

Australia's bowling attack is as good as any in the world. Set proper fields and if we're good enough to spank a few through the covers for 4, then fair play to us. They seem obsessed with not letting us score boundaries, thinking that sooner or later we'll give our wickets away.

Cummins lost his way yesterday. They needed wkts but at times it was just too defensive and allowed us to knock the ball around at pretty low risk.

And his use or non use of Murphy was poor. Yes he's young but he looks a good spinner and he should have bowled when 80 or 90 were still needed. It can hardly fill Murphy with confidence that his captain decided to only bowl him for 2 overs in the 4th innings of a test.

 

[Ashes81]

Suggested username: Chris the Aussie

No it should be Mitchell Hinton, Chris' Aussie cousin

 

[Flem274*]

This game looks insane. Gutted I missed most of day 5. Noice win England.

 

[Owzat]

Harris has the lowest average of any Australian opener ever I believe and already failed against England

So it's a fair shout to say he's not very good. Marsh just saves his best for us the prick.

Harris 607 runs @ 25.29, down to 19.75 vs England but a lofty 29.83 down under in the Ashes

BUT take Duckett early career, 110 runs @ 15.71, so could argue another chance could pay off even though Harris is on 14 Tests and Duckett now approaching that many

 

[ataraxia]

This game looks insane. Gutted I missed most of day 5. Noice win England.

Don't think you're missing much day 5 tbh

 

[Flem274*]

Don't think you're missing much day 5 tbh

doh. will leave it up.

 

[CarlsbergXpress]

Don't think you're missing much day 5 tbh

Could do with missing this hangover

 

[Gob]

Is it true that England are going to celebrate this in an open top bus parade after beating Australia for the first time in their last ten tests with out Joel Wilson's helping hand?

 

[Owzat]

I think the Aussies have become muddled in their thinking as regards field placings.

Did seem rather hit and miss yesterday, bouncing Wood, probably got frustrated by streaky England runs (Woakes, Brook)

Right from the 1st ball of the series they set defensive fields with boundary riders.

Now you can argue as they won the 1st two tests, it worked but I think they won those tests despite those fields.

They've then carried on these fields right the way through our batting with some quite ridiculous fields to our lower order.

Wasn't as big a target given the totals were much smaller, none above 270, but the clue is in the low totals where wickets were taken and you take slips out of play when you bounce a lot for starters, and it cost them 4 byes and indeed a wide. It was poor viewing when England bounced the aussies out last Test, with the way Starc was bowling and Cummins did 1st innings you'd think they'd have worked out that you save that 'tactic' for when partnerships have grown - not many at all over 50 last Test

And his use or non use of Murphy was poor. Yes he's young but he looks a good spinner and he should have bowled when 80 or 90 were still needed. It can hardly fill Murphy with confidence that his captain decided to only bowl him for 2 overs in the 4th innings of a test.

to be fair it may have been a poor Test to throw him in at the deep end, maybe should have gone with an extra quick bowler and hope Head could bowl if and as needed. The totals just weren't there, had it been 320+ as a target you'd have expected him not to be hidden away, especially given the difference (sizeable) batting partnerships made to the match, just couldn't let pairs settle when defending 250 (pretty much both innings)

 

[loterry1994]

Yeah Murphy was used horribly this test and they had no trust in him to bowl more overs. First innings you bring him in to try finish off stokes when his smacking sixes everywhere. Then 2nd innings they bring him in when there’s like 20 runs left to get for an over

 

[Nintendo]

Harris 607 runs @ 25.29, down to 19.75 vs England but a lofty 29.83 down under in the Ashes

BUT take Duckett early career, 110 runs @ 15.71, so could argue another chance could pay off even though Harris is on 14 Tests and Duckett now approaching that many

Duckett got found at as a 23 YO newbie and went back to Fc and worked on his game for years similar to what usman did vs spin pre 2019 PAK tour.

Harris has been good at shield and county level fairly consistently but he's not any different technically so I'm not sold on him performing much better than he has thus far. I would have said the same thing about marsh before this game TBF, but I think his innings was more down to England not planning for him well enough. He's terrible vs balls at the knee roll targeting middle stump and England fed him a ton of short balls or full balls he could smash away instead.

 

[Ashes81]

Is it true that England are going to celebrate this in an open top bus parade after beating Australia for the first time in their last ten tests with out Joel Wilson's helping hand?

No that's not true

 

[Spofforth]

The tactics are one thing and that's to be set to one side, this bouncer barrage really isn't Green's game but it frankly isn't any of theirs so the persistence with it is not really a selection issue. Ultimately the point is about team balance and flexibility; if you give up a handful of runs an innings in order to use your strike bowlers in a more strike bowler role (Cummins in particular is seriously overbowling himself) that keeps them fresh and primed because you can rely on your all-rounder for a decent quality spell of bowling per session then that gets you that much closer to taking 20 wickets quickly, which is far more important - and has flow-on effects for your batsmen too.

Of course it's a selection issue. Conditions and tactics dictate selections to large extent (especially for bowlers).

I think Cummins overbowled himself (particularly 1st innings) because he isn't a very good Captain and because Boland was ordinary. He could have used Marsh more. Why would you need a 4th seamer to keep your main bowlers fresh, then give him a whole 3 overs (1st innings)?

The reason we didn't get 20 wickets is because we didn't have enough runs to defend. The poms haven't batted out a full day yet. Have we taken a second new ball yet this series? If you need another quick to do that, a sprinkle of cement dust on the weeties could be in order, or a chat with Peter Siddle.

In any case Green actually has a better Test batting record than his two competitors for that spot (Harris and Renshaw) so the point is moot. But nevertheless spin bowling part timers are in no way a replacement for a proper 5th bowling option; just look at how Murphy was (not) used in this game if you want to see how that would go with regards to workload. Or indeed the fact that Cummins didn't trust Head to bowl at all on the 5th day at Lord's when he probably needed to have a bowl to give the others a break.

Yeah, well, we lost despite our "fourth seamer". You realise you're talking "workload" in an innings that took in a whole 50 overs.. to complete? In a match we lost for not having enough runs to defend?

As to part time spin...Michael Clarke's 3-15 at the SCG says hello. Interestingly we had a no 6 who scored 162 and 61 in the same match. Could be something in that?

That Cummins didn't have the stomach to bowl a new spinner under the circumstances might be understandable, but that is on Cummins. He didn't bowl Marsh much either. In a tight series I wonder if our new spinner might get the Ponting-Hauritz treatment.

No idea what Harris is doing in the squad, but Renshaw should never have been dropped when he was. He hasn't had many opportunities since (including being rushed Johannesburg after the sandpaper incident). Far better recent shield form than Green though, yet from limited matches.

Green is getting to the point where "has promise" might start changing to "had promise". Heard that somewhere before...

 

[social]

Duckett got found at as a 23 YO newbie and went back to Fc and worked on his game for years similar to what usman did vs spin pre 2019 PAK tour.

Harris has been good at shield and county level fairly consistently but he's not any different technically so I'm not sold on him performing much better than he has thus far. I would have said the same thing about marsh before this game TBF, but I think his innings was more down to England not planning for him well enough. He's terrible vs balls at the knee roll targeting middle stump and England fed him a ton of short balls or full balls he could smash away instead.

Marsh technique hasn’t changed but his mentality has as used to be like a deer in the headlights

I wouldn’t be surprised if he failed for the rest of the series nor would I be shocked if played another top innings

It would however shock the **** outta me if Harris wasn’t a sitting duck

 

[Burgey]

 

[social]

Of course it's a selection issue. Conditions and tactics dictate selections to large extent (especially for bowlers).

I think Cummins overbowled himself (particularly 1st innings) because he isn't a very good Captain and because Boland was ordinary. He could have used Marsh more. Why would you need a 4th seamer to keep your main bowlers fresh, then give him a whole 3 overs (1st innings)?

The reason we didn't get 20 wickets is because we didn't have enough runs to defend. The poms haven't batted out a full day yet. Have we taken a second new ball yet this series? If you need another quick to do that, a sprinkle of cement dust on the weeties could be in order, or a chat with Peter Siddle.



Yeah, well, we lost despite our "fourth seamer". You realise you're talking "workload" in an innings that took in a whole 50 overs.. to complete? In a match we lost for not having enough runs to defend?

As to part time spin...Michael Clarke's 3-15 at the SCG says hello. Interestingly we had a no 6 who scored 162 and 61 in the same match. Could be something in that?

That Cummins didn't have the stomach to bowl a new spinner under the circumstances might be understandable, but that is on Cummins. He didn't bowl Marsh much either. In a tight series I wonder if our new spinner might get the Ponting-Hauritz treatment.

No idea what Harris is doing in the squad, but Renshaw should never have been dropped when he was. He hasn't had many opportunities since (his limited opportunities include being rushed in to Johannesburg after sandpaper incident). Far better recent shield form than Green though, yet from limited matches.

Green is getting to the point where "has promise" might start changing to "had promise".

Renshaw’s record is padded by an unbeaten double hundred on a road plus he hasn’t fixed his technical issues

Green is a much better player

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

Marsh technique hasn’t changed but his mentality has as used to be like a deer in the headlights

I wouldn’t be surprised if he failed for the rest of the series nor would I be shocked if played another top innings

It would however shock the **** outta me if Harris wasn’t a sitting duck

The only way Marsh will succeed is if he goes after the bowling like a Harry Brook , if he tries playing normally he'll get out cheaply..

 

[social]

The only way Marsh will succeed is if he goes after the bowling like a Harry Brook , if he tries playing normally he'll get out cheaply..

Playing normally for him is going after the bowling

That’s where he ****ed up before