***Official*** Tendulkar vs Ponting Thread

[kingjulian]

Ponting averaged 40 against them; hardly failing. And he did better against Pakistan and S.Africa than Tendulkar did...so what now?

I quote from wiki..

Ponting continued in the role for the series against the West Indies in 1996–97 in Australia. After two Test matches and three scores under 10, he was replaced by Justin Langer,[63] despite scoring 88 in the First Test.[50] He was out of the team for six months, and missed the remaining three Tests against the West Indies, the three Tests on the tour to South Africa, both series victories to Australia.

The selectors had to step in to protect him from good Pace bowlers here.

He then had to be protected from good spin bowling here.

On the subsequent tour of Pakistan less than six months later, Ponting was dropped in favour of Darren Lehmann. The left-hander was perceived to be a better player of spin and a better prospect on the dry pitches of the Indian subcontinent than Ponting.

So he really needed to be protected from good bowling basically so his average does not take a dent. Some great player he is.

Waugh or Tendulkar did not need anything like that.

 

[Ikki]

The selectors had to step in to protect him from good Pace bowlers here.

He then had to be protected from good spin bowling here.

Sure they did. LOL, you're incredible.

So he really needed to be protected from good bowling basically so his average does not take a dent. Some great player he is.

Waugh or Tendulkar did not need anything like that.

Yet he averages 40 and above all the great bowlers of the era...something neither Tendulkar, Lara or Waugh did. What a weakkkkkkk player of pace.

 

[kingjulian]

No, because you specifically said to include the best bowlers. It's why you don't have Hansie Cronje, who has better stats against India than Murali and Warne, for Tendulkar.

Hansie played in all the games that Donald played against India. Donald was included. So the stats don't really change. You can feel free to include him.

Harbajan was India's strike bowler. India was Australia's toughest competitor. So what you are saying really is that he doesn't play well when the competition gets tough?

 

[Ikki]

It's funny, the very next two lines are:

Many "experts" thought the decision was unjustifiable. Former Australian coach, Bob Simpson, said: "I really feel that Ricky could have been persevered with. He's a fine young cricketer and he'll now have to prove that he's got the tenacity and temperament to go with it."[64] Ponting's axing meant he had time to regain his form in the Sheffield Shield. Despite struggling at first, he scored twin centuries against South Australia in Hobart, and proceeded to score another ton against Queensland.[64]

Unfortunately, that's how it was back then. He didn't play for India...he played for Australia; with Test quality players aplenty in the domestic competition.

 

[Ikki]

Hansie played in all the games that Donald played against India. Donald was included. So the stats don't really change. You can feel free to include him.

Harbajan was India's strike bowler. India was Australia's toughest competitor. So what you are saying really is that he doesn't play well when the competition gets tough?

I know that; but that occurs with other bowlers too. Since some of them bowled in pairs. The point is; the logic is all wrong - like the Harbhajan one. Anyway, it's clear now how you work. I mean, even in your top 6...it's a 1 run difference...which proves jack. Yet you go about it as if it's the definition.

 

[kingjulian]

Sure they did. LOL, you're incredible.

Yet he averages 40 and above all the great bowlers of the era...something neither Tendulkar, Lara or Waugh did. What a weakkkkkkk player of pace.

You are basing that on all of what three innings he faced? He was found out against Ambrose and Walsh. He was dropped from facing an SA with Donald etc and again Ambrose and Walsh in windies. It was not as if, "oh no, if only he had the chance to play more against those guys...". He clearly had, and he blew it. The evidence points to his average taking a dive south if he was forced to play more. Likewise he was exposed so badly by Venkatapathy Raju, and they decided to protect him against Saqlain and Murali. He was not a teenage boy either. He was a seasoned first class pro by then in his early 20s/more closer to mid 20s. He was already a fixture in Australia's world cup winning team first XI.

You compare that to a Tendulkar who had to make his debut against Akram (player in all time world XI), and Waqar (probably the quickest bowler at that time), and he handled it beautifully and never looked out of depth. Followed it up with playing beautifully against top English and Australian bowlers away from home. Never gave a reason to be dropped. The only time people called his place in question was 15 years down the line. He was always in red hot form and never looked out of touch and no bowler had him as their bunny. Lara likewise. It is pretty clear to me where he stands in comparison to Lara and Tendulkar. None of this better player "pache" bowling wash with me.

 

[Ikki]

A batsman that averages 40 and scores 88 in his first ever innings against those two is found out? Haha, next you'll tell me Ponting is a crap player of pace. Yet Tendulkar who averaged in the 30s against Wasim and Waqar never looked out of depth.

Gee...you really remind me of someone.

 

[kingjulian]

I know that; but that occurs with other bowlers too. Since some of them bowled in pairs. The point is; the logic is all wrong - like the Harbhajan one. Anyway, it's clear now how you work. I mean, even in your top 6...it's a 1 run difference...which proves jack. Yet you go about it as if it's the definition.

I would expect a batsman who has a claim to be better than Lara and Tendulkar to average at least a decimal more, considering he played for the best team and didn't have to face the deadly McWarne.

 

[kingjulian]

Gee...you really remind me of someone.

The guy with whom you are losing an argument to?

 

[Ikki]

I would expect a batsman who has a claim to be better than Lara and Tendulkar to average at least a decimal more, considering he played for the best team and didn't have to face the deadly McWarne.

Don't worry mate, Tendulkar hardly faced McWarne too .

All kidding aside, have you seen Ponting in domestic cricket play those two? You wouldn't have a doubt. Especially when you look at how he played comparable spinners and pacers to those two .

 

[Altaican]

Tendulkar played against a strong Windies team from 89 to 2000. Ponting tried to play against an aging but strong windies bowling line-up

Sorry... couldn't resist...

 

[four_or_six]

This is the thread that doesn't end...

 

[kingjulian]

A batsman that averages 40 and scores 88 in his first ever innings against those two is found out? Haha, next you'll tell me Ponting is a crap player of pace. Yet Tendulkar who averaged in the 30s against Wasim and Waqar never looked out of depth.

He looked uncomfortable enough for the selectors to question his technique against short ball, and drop him to stop him from further embarrassing himself against these guys.

Wasim and Waqar got Sachin out once each in test cricket and that is more than 20 years ago, when Tendulkar's balls had not dropped.

He averages less than 40 against Pak because Saqlain Mushtaq (you are never going to comprehend this bit, that much is certain) was bowling brilliantly in the only test series that was played when Wasim and Waqar were around after that debut series.

 

[robelinda]

What a mess. Ponting was dropped in 96 after those two tests because Langer had scored a superb huge 200 in shield cricket, and was on a super run of form and demanded selection. It was very harsh on Ponting, obviously had nothing to do with ability to play pace bowling. and Ian Bishop was NOT at his best or anywhere near his peak at that time, he was bowling 138km outswingers, Ian Healy creamed him all over the Gabba in the previous test. 12 months later Ponting was hammering an in form Donald at the MCG for one of his best tons.

He didnt get out to the short ball or even look uncomfortable against AT ALL in those two tests v WI, did you watch them at all??????? You are just making stuff up mate.

 

[Ikki]

Yeah...because Ponting, arguably the best puller of all time has had a problem with the short ball...

 

[kingjulian]

It's funny, the very next two lines are:



Unfortunately, that's how it was back then. He didn't play for India...he played for Australia; with Test quality players aplenty in the domestic competition.

Playing yourself in to form also means your average will more than likely drop.

Learning on the international stage is easier said than done. It is ok to be a lesser batsman than Tendulkar and Lara.

 

[Altaican]

What a mess. Ponting was dropped in 96 after those two tests because Langer had scored a superb huge 200 in shield cricket, and was on a super run of form and demanded selection. It was very harsh on Ponting, obviously had nothing to do with ability to play pace bowling. and Ian Bishop was NOT at his best or anywhere near his peak at that time, he was bowling 138km outswingers, Ian Healy creamed him all over the Gabba in the previous test. 12 months later Ponting was hammering an in form Donald at the MCG for one of his best tons.

He didnt get out to the short ball or even look uncomfortable against AT ALL in those two tests v WI, did you watch them at all??????? You are just making stuff up mate.

Anyone who claims Bishop was at his best after his back injury hasn't watched Bishop at all.

Although Ponting has a better record against great fast bowlers, as far as I have seen, I never felt Ponting's innings were "clean" (like Gilchrist's for example). There usually a lot of missed or shanked shots. It never felt totally "in control" to me. Perhaps that is his style of playing or maybe I missed some of his better innings.

 

[Ikki]

I've seen plenty of clean innings by Ponting TBF. But if you're comparing him to Gilchrist, well then that kind of explains it. Never seen a player hit the ball as cleanly as him - Benaud says the same. Both Sehwag and Gilchrist score at incredible rates but Gilchrist seemed to hit the middle of the bat all the time.

Ponting always comes down with his front foot and then picks his stroke; it does look jerky at times.

 

[robelinda]

Bishop was devastating in the early 90's, incredible hostile stuff. By 96 was barely above medium fast pace. That SCG pitch was very up and down in 96, looking at the scores in the match telle you it wasnt easy, Taylor left WI to chase just above 300 on the last day fully knowing Lara could do it on his own, the pitch was a bit tough. Ponting actually got out to two balls that kept really low, like an early 80's MCG pitch would play. AT the Gabba he up on his toes playing the short ball stuff easily, green seamer of a first morning too.

 

[robelinda]

I've seen plenty of clean innings by Ponting TBF. But if you're comparing him to Gilchrist, well then that kind of explains it. Never seen a player hit the ball as cleanly as Gilchrist. Both Sehwag and Gilchrist score at incredible rates but Gilchrist seemed to hit the middle of the bat all the time.

Bloody oath. Gilly was insane. I recall a tour match in 96 , WA v WI at the WACA, Gilly was captain and peeled off a first day ton in blazing fashion, Kim Hughes said on commentary that Gilly was the cleanest hitter he had ever seen. Was a bit of a shock at the time but with the next few years it would be a standard comment about Gilly, so clean was his strokes.