** Official ** Sri Lanka in New Zealand tour

[Blaze]

Its such a pointless discussion. Astle will always be in the team till he retires

 

[psxpro]

But why?
I think we have to look at who will score the most runs in sa and I can see styris scoring more than astle in sa.
And styris can bowl just as well as astle.

Don't get me wrong, I've been a huge astle fan and that 222 is my fav test innings.
But I just think styris and vincent both deserve to be in the team.

Anzac i don't agree with you, the reason for our recent poor performances in tests (apart from this test) has been our bating is way too negative and we simply focus and occupying the crease.
The days we play more strokes, we win those matches.
Also bowlers have been more at fault than batsmen anyway.

 

[Zinzan]

It's too much work for someone in Tests.

Long Term it would likely see his batting and keeping diminish.

Agreed....although Wayne Phillips did it with Moderate success a few years ago for Aust and I may be wrong but did stewart do it for England at some stage.

Overall though I don't think Mccullum opening is a good idea

 

[Macka]

From my view the only real possiblity of having Styris in the side would be Hamish Marshall opening. McCullum should not open because of obvious reasons. Vincent should not keep wickets - he has said he no longer wants to.

If Fleming was mentally stronger - he has the game and ability to open - it would make the line-up a lot easier to choose.

Blaze: Are you old enough to vote? Just wondering.

 

[Zinzan]

From my view the only real possiblity of having Styris in the side would be Hamish Marshall opening. McCullum should not open because of obvious reasons. Vincent should not keep wickets - he has said he no longer wants to.

If Fleming was mentally stronger - he has the game and ability to open - it would make the line-up a lot easier to choose.

Blaze: Are you old enough to vote? Just wondering.

From reading a number of his posts, I'd suggest no.

Same old problem NZ have had for a while now - with the expection of Mark Richardson.

Too many good proven middle order batsmen, and too few proven openers.

IMO we have at least 6 solid proven test players to full the 4 positions from 3-6 in the batting order.

Styris
Vincent
Fleming
H.Marshall
Astle
Oram

some would argue Mcmillan and Sinclair as well from their test records, however I think we should move on from them.

So unfortunately looking ahead at least one of the above players will have to bat out of their normal position and open.

 

[Blaze]

From my view the only real possiblity of having Styris in the side would be Hamish Marshall opening. McCullum should not open because of obvious reasons. Vincent should not keep wickets - he has said he no longer wants to.

If Fleming was mentally stronger - he has the game and ability to open - it would make the line-up a lot easier to choose.

Blaze: Are you old enough to vote? Just wondering.

No, no I am not.. only just though.

If the election was next year I would be

 

[Blaze]

From reading a number of his posts, I'd suggest no.

Same old problem NZ have had for a while now - with the expection of Mark Richardson.

Too many good proven middle order batsmen, and too few proven openers.

IMO we have at least 6 solid proven test players to full the 4 positions from 3-6 in the batting order.

Styris
Vincent
Fleming
H.Marshall
Astle
Oram

some would argue Mcmillan and Sinclair as well from their test records, however I think we should move on from them.

So unfortunately looking ahead at least one of the above players will have to bat out of their normal position and open.

Ouch.

One of those players doesn't have to open. Keep with the same opening pair we had against Sri Lanka and make the middle order fight for positions against each other.

It is a healthy situation that we have but we could ruin it all by batting players out of position and then discarding them when they fail. i.e Vincent

 

[Ming]

Just because we suddenly have a surplus of one batsman out of form in Styris, we don't need to move people out of position (like Vincent and McCullum), to accomodate him. Sure if Cumming or James Marshall don't perform, maybe consider moving Fleming upto open, but there is no need for this to occur at the moment.

 

[psxpro]

So who would you drop out of astle, vincent and Styris?

I'd back fleming to score more runs in sa opening than cumming.
That would also allow our best middle order batsmen to play/

 

[amiller]

I do believe Fleming has the ability to open. McGrath just seemed to have some sort of grip over him. Probably have Fleming and James Marshall opening and drop Cumming, Hamish Marshall at 3 etc

 

[marc71178]

Agreed....although Wayne Phillips did it with Moderate success a few years ago for Aust and I may be wrong but did stewart do it for England at some stage.

With Phillips it was at a far less intense time in terms of schedules.

Stewart wasn't a succes at it either, in fact for the majority of the time he was keeping wicket, his batting average was lower than that of Jack Russell (who wasn't selected because of his inferior batting, in spite of being the best keeper in the world)

If only they'd kept Stewart opening and Russell at 7, the side would've been a lot stronger IMO.

 

[marc71178]

I'd back fleming to score more runs in sa opening than cumming.
That would also allow our best middle order batsmen to play/

I'd argue it'd leave your best middle order batsman out of position.

 

[psxpro]

I'd argue it'd leave your best middle order batsman out of position.

He did allright against a good attack in england opening. He struggled vs aussie but not all teams have the accuracy of mgrath etc who has fleming all worked out.

Also fleming has always been a no 3 batsman, thats where he has batted his best and most of the time he has come in early, i don't really see the difference in him opening.

 

[Ming]

So who would you drop out of astle, vincent and Styris?

I'd back fleming to score more runs in sa opening than cumming.
That would also allow our best middle order batsmen to play/

Vincent and Astle are definitly in for mine. Styris will have to work his way back in.

I also like the idea of Fleming opening in Tests again, if Styris hits his straps during his county stint.

 

[Ming]

He did allright against a good attack in england opening. He struggled vs aussie but not all teams have the accuracy of mgrath etc who has fleming all worked out.

Also fleming has always been a no 3 batsman, thats where he has batted his best and most of the time he has come in early, i don't really see the difference in him opening.

Fleming has played more matches at 4 than 3, and has 22 50s at 4 too...

 

[psxpro]

Vincent and Astle are definitly in for mine. Styris will have to work his way back in.

I also like the idea of Fleming opening in Tests again, if Styris hits his straps during his county stint.

Why does styris have to work his way back in?
The last time he played vs Sa he was right on top of them , why can't he do the same again?
Styris deserves his place in the side.

 

[Zinzan]

Vincent and Astle are definitly in for mine. Styris will have to work his way back in.

I also like the idea of Fleming opening in Tests again, if Styris hits his straps during his county stint.

Thinking about it again, I could actually live with Fleming opening if it means having H.Marshall, Styris, Vincent, Astle and Oram to follow at 3,4,5,6 and 7 respectively.

Even though I agreed at the time that he should go back down the order against Australia after failing 3 or 4 times, that was a isolated series, and in thinking back it was actually Mcgrath that had Fleming worked out as opposed to him failing simply because he was opening. Also he didn't have a bad series against England (a good attack) opening.

As I've said before, although Cumming showed on the odd occasion he could bat time, I don't think he's quite got the technique needed at test level. It took 1 innings for the Aussie's to work him out after his 74 on debut, and since then his weakness of playing around his front-pad has been exposed time and time again.

He also score's too slowly IMO, a tad like Mark Richardson, but he's not nearly as solid as Richie was to warrant his selection.

 

[Blaze]

He did allright against a good attack in england opening. He struggled vs aussie but not all teams have the accuracy of mgrath etc who has fleming all worked out.

Also fleming has always been a no 3 batsman, thats where he has batted his best and most of the time he has come in early, i don't really see the difference in him opening.

Fleming is actually a natural number 4 batsman.

Opening and batting in the top order is completly different in terms of mindset menatally

 

[Ming]

Why does styris have to work his way back in?
The last time he played vs Sa he was right on top of them , why can't he do the same again?
Styris deserves his place in the side.

Because Styris is not the current 6, and when he's been away injured, Astle and Vincent have impressed in the middle order.

That 170 he played against SA, will be around 2 years ago when the 1st Test starts in SA. You seem to ask pointless questions like, "why can't he do the same again?" If everyone could repeat the time they scored a 100, they would all be champions.

Styris deserves his place in the side....I guess that's why many people were calling him to be dropped before he got injured?

 

[anzac]

Oh, so Astle's runs were all because of Hamish? What a shame....I guess Hamish wasn't there when Astle scored most of his Test and ODI centuries.....

Astle didn't do exactly badly against the Australians, where he averaged over 30, and looked the second best NZ batsman.

I believe that in this series his most productive time at the crease was when batting with Hamish - and I believe that to be as a result of the style of player Hamish is.......I've previously stated that IMO Hamish has the same effect in the ODI side & that the other players seem to perform better when he is at the crease.........

Astle's past form is of little relevance to me other than to serve as an indicator of what he has been capable of - my main concern is as to whether or not he can emulate those feats on any regular basis...............

in all honesty since his return from injury he has been something of a disappointment, and IMO has been fortunate that McMillan has been so spectacular in his failings that he has not been more in the spotlight.................

these past 2 series have seen him return to some form, but I still want more consistency - I don't want a ton followed by 3 sub 30 innings.................because in effect that's 1 contribution in a 2 match series..............& the same holds true for any of the batsmen.........