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** Official ** Sri Lanka in New Zealand tour

anzac

International Debutant
Will Scarlet said:
I can't believe anyone would be suggesting promoting either Astle or Vincent to opener. It's a specialist role that should not be attempted by middle order batsmen. At worst a #3 could fill the role, depending on their exposure to the new ball.

Styris would need to do a lot to qualify for a touring spot IMO. Take Fulton and How to ZIM.

And I don't see how Bracewell can justify saying James Marshall has been such a great success. One 50 in five innings? And a scratchy one at that. Hamish Marshall, certainly.

Shame that Wiseman was unable to perform when given the opportunity to be the lone spinner. He was very ordinary against SL.
agreed re opening being a specialist role - see my earlier post re 'converts' to the position.........but the use of #3s re opens the debate re Vincent, Fleming, Hamish & Fulton - as much as the use of James.........

and aren't James' efforts on a par with those of Cumming?????
 

Will Scarlet

U19 Debutant
anzac said:
agreed re opening being a specialist role - see my earlier post re 'converts' to the position.........but the use of #3s re opens the debate re Vincent, Fleming, Hamish & Fulton - as much as the use of James.........

and aren't James' efforts on a par with those of Cumming?????
I agree. Neither Cumming or J Marshall have been a great success, but both are likely to be retained for future tours. I especially think they under-performed, since the Napier test was on a very flat wicket and both struggled against a weak SL bowling attack.
 
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chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
JASON said:
If anything this Test shows again SL reliance on Murali ! When he's there the batsmen do well, the support bowlers bowl well. He's basically the Key central figure and without him the whole Team collapses !! With him they are very good, without him they are rubbish !! :D :D

Chandana is not a Test bowler and should not be picked for his bits and pieces bowling and support batting ! He is essentially an ODI bits and pieces fella.

Same applies to Maharoof !! He fits the ODI bill. But at Test level found wanting badly !

Kulasekera has potential and if anything I was impressed by him and would encourage him and persevere with him !! He did bloody well on debut, despite not being rewarded due to dropped catches etc..

Jayasuriya needs to go down the order !! Age unfortunately is catching up fast with this guy ! And support bowling is not what he is in the Test Team for !!
I agree with everything u say their apart from amybe Kulasekera, like the other two he looks like a ODI Bowler. For me our Test bowlers are Murali, Vaas, Malinga, Zoysa, Dilhara and Nissanka. Perera also needs to be given a run in Test if Zoysa and Dilhara aren't fit for the next Test.


JASON said:
Thilan needs to move up the order to 4 , IMO.
I think he needs to go to 3 for me, that allows Sangakkara to bat at 4 and Mahela to bat at 5 and then Jaysuriya 6 and Dishan 7.


JASON said:
And BTW, you were clamouring for the debutant guy called Kalavitigoda !! He has shown very little to suggest he deserves another chance ,if he can't capitalise on a flat track against a very average attack !! Ian Daniel deserves that spot IMO.
I don't think you should rate someone on just 1 Test, when he wasn't the only on that failed. He performed well enough in domestic cricket and for SL 'A' to keep his spot until Vandort or Daniel start performing more consistantly for SL 'A'. They are the long term solution for the top of the order but in the short term i would give him another go. If he has a bad series in the next Test or Daniel, Vandort, Mubrak or Arnold in great form then drop him.

I know i said Kulasekera isn't good enough after one game but the difference is that he hasn't performed consistantly for SL 'A' or even set the world on fire in ODIs.
 

Sir Redman

State Vice-Captain
Something everyone seems to be missing with Astle is that he is extremely experienced. When under the hammer it is generally the experienced players that come through. Astle has a test average of 37.81 from 71 matches. Compare that to players like Styris and Oram who average 39.77 from 19 tests and 43.56 from 17 respectively, and you get an idea of why Astle is valuable.

If we drop Astle and have this lineup:

J Marshall
Cumming
H Marshall
Fleming
Vincent
Styris
Oram
McCullum

then we have a total of just 180 tests in our top 8. If you take Fleming's tests out of there you end up with only 86 tests in 7 batmen. That is an incredibly inexperienced team. Considering only Hamish has played in SA at test level (just once) that is taking a big gamble with regards to different conditions
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
zinzan12 said:
To be quite honest I think if anything NZ batsmen got themselves out just as much as sri lanka in this test. Fleming misplacing a hook shot, Mccullum pushing too hard for a caught and bowled, Vincent running him self out (although we forgive him :) ), Mills trying a big hit caught at mid-off and Cumming playing across a straight ball.

I actually thought in this test most sri lanka wickets were due to good probing bowling from Martin, Franklin and Astle.
You have to remember that Vaas was bowling the same probing bowling and you guys didn't get out to that as frequenty as we did to your bowler's similar bowling. We were getting to frustrated when the bowl was doing a bit and didn't apply ourselves with the bat and played down the wrong line. Credit has to be given to the kiwis for supporting each other with the bowl, which we did do, this was one of the big difference. As well as the application that the Kiwis showed with the bat when ball was doing a bit.
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
anzac said:
no it means that in a head to head comparison Astle & Vincent have 2nd strings to their bows, whereas Styris perhaps does not if he is no longer a bowling option........all 3 have skills in the field - by selecting Vincent as potential cover for McCullum allows the selectors to not take a 2nd specialist 'keeper in the squad...........
What about the opition of playing McCullum and James Marshall as the openers (two regulary openers) and then giveing the gloves to Vincent and letting him bat at 7. A lot would depend on how good Vincent is with the gloves, but it would allow you to play all top batsmen and also play two regular openers.
B McCullum
J Marshall
H Marshall
S Fleming
N Astle
S Styris
L Vincent (wk)
J Oram
D Vettori
S Bond
J Franklin/C Martin
 

psxpro

Banned
chaminda_00 said:
What about the opition of playing McCullum and James Marshall as the openers (two regulary openers) and then giveing the gloves to Vincent and letting him bat at 7. A lot would depend on how good Vincent is with the gloves, but it would allow you to play all top batsmen and also play two regular openers.
B McCullum
J Marshall
H Marshall
S Fleming
N Astle
S Styris
L Vincent (wk)
J Oram
D Vettori
S Bond
J Franklin/C Martin

Thatw ould mean oram would be too low. We made this mistake vs sa and he was left stranded not out when looking real good. I don't want him any lower than 7. I think mccullum opening is a good idea but at this stage it has to be astle imo.
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
psxpro said:
Thatw ould mean oram would be too low. We made this mistake vs sa and he was left stranded not out when looking real good. I don't want him any lower than 7. I think mccullum opening is a good idea but at this stage it has to be astle imo.
I read a pervious post that Harmish opened the batting with James for ND a while back
 

Sir Redman

State Vice-Captain
Something interesting from Stuff with the NZC contracts - apparently Styris was number 2 on the list last year.
Seems like he's held in very high regard by the people who matter...
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
Sir Redman said:
Something interesting from Stuff with the NZC contracts - apparently Styris was number 2 on the list last year.
Seems like he's held in very high regard by the people who matter...
Well he was playing some exception cricket when the contracts were given out and also thought of at the time as a possible future captain.
 

Somerset

Cricketer Of The Year
chaminda_00 said:
What about the opition of playing McCullum and James Marshall as the openers (two regulary openers) and then giveing the gloves to Vincent and letting him bat at 7. A lot would depend on how good Vincent is with the gloves, but it would allow you to play all top batsmen and also play two regular openers.
B McCullum
J Marshall
H Marshall
S Fleming
N Astle
S Styris
L Vincent (wk)
J Oram
D Vettori
S Bond
J Franklin/C Martin
Why can't a wicket keeper open? There's no reason not to open with McCullum if he wants to and it benefits the New Zealand team IMO. In saying that, I believe Lou Vincent is adequate cover in terms of wicket keeping and taking another specialist like Hopkins or Nevin is unnecessary.
 

Somerset

Cricketer Of The Year
Sir Redman said:
Something everyone seems to be missing with Astle is that he is extremely experienced. When under the hammer it is generally the experienced players that come through. Astle has a test average of 37.81 from 71 matches. Compare that to players like Styris and Oram who average 39.77 from 19 tests and 43.56 from 17 respectively, and you get an idea of why Astle is valuable.

If we drop Astle and have this lineup:

J Marshall
Cumming
H Marshall
Fleming
Vincent
Styris
Oram
McCullum

then we have a total of just 180 tests in our top 8. If you take Fleming's tests out of there you end up with only 86 tests in 7 batmen. That is an incredibly inexperienced team. Considering only Hamish has played in SA at test level (just once) that is taking a big gamble with regards to different conditions
Astle simply can't be dropped and is a definite in my squad. His position in the Kiwi order is not so definite though with the depth we suddenly appear to have produced. If you consider his bowling contributions in the most recent test against Sri Lanka, as you say, his value is incredible important to the team.

In all honesty, one player that will have to fight for his place is Scott Styris - it's likely that with Oram returning to partner Vettori, and also two of Bond, Martin and Franklin before Astle, the bowling front seems to be prepared and balanced. The likes of Cumming and James Marshall deserve more opportunities at test level and it levels me wondering with Scotty after his injury.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Somerset said:
Why can't a wicket keeper open? There's no reason not to open with McCullum if he wants to and it benefits the New Zealand team IMO.
It's too much work for someone in Tests.

Long Term it would likely see his batting and keeping diminish.
 

Ming

State 12th Man
chaminda_00 said:
Well he was playing some exception cricket when the contracts were given out and also thought of at the time as a possible future captain.

Styris was never considered as a future captain at all, where you come up with these comments I'm not sure. Oram and Vettori were discussed as possible captains down the line.
 

Sir Redman

State Vice-Captain
Somerset said:
Why can't a wicket keeper open? There's no reason not to open with McCullum if he wants to and it benefits the New Zealand team IMO.
It's a possibility, but McCullum gets himself out a bit too easily for my liking. Having said that, some of his most valuable contributions have come from when he has been given the extra responsibilty of opening/#3 (such as 96 v England)
 

anzac

International Debutant
Sir Redman said:
Something everyone seems to be missing with Astle is that he is extremely experienced. When under the hammer it is generally the experienced players that come through. Astle has a test average of 37.81 from 71 matches. Compare that to players like Styris and Oram who average 39.77 from 19 tests and 43.56 from 17 respectively, and you get an idea of why Astle is valuable.
yeah and that theory has got us where this decade with regard to the batting collapses each series?????

for too long the senior players have not come to the party IMO - yes they have a good innings per series, but when the chips have been down they have failed to impress on a whole with their lack of grit & determination.............their application & approach to their game has sucked.........

IMO I saw more gumption from Vincent than I've seen from 'senior' players for some time..............
 

anzac

International Debutant
psxpro said:
Thatw ould mean oram would be too low. We made this mistake vs sa and he was left stranded not out when looking real good. I don't want him any lower than 7. I think mccullum opening is a good idea but at this stage it has to be astle imo.
unless McCullum dropped below Oram in a 6-4 split he's still bat at #8...........

IMO having 6 batsmen would actually give him a better chance at mounting a score b4 he had to hit out with the tail - esp with Vettori #9 & possibly Franklin & Bond to follow = what tail?????
 

anzac

International Debutant
Somerset said:
Astle simply can't be dropped and is a definite in my squad. His position in the Kiwi order is not so definite though with the depth we suddenly appear to have produced. If you consider his bowling contributions in the most recent test against Sri Lanka, as you say, his value is incredible important to the team.

In all honesty, one player that will have to fight for his place is Scott Styris - it's likely that with Oram returning to partner Vettori, and also two of Bond, Martin and Franklin before Astle, the bowling front seems to be prepared and balanced. The likes of Cumming and James Marshall deserve more opportunities at test level and it levels me wondering with Scotty after his injury.
hey if he continues to score runs and take wickets then I have no problems with his inclusion in the team / squad................

however IMO this is basically the 1st series since his return from injury that he has managed an allround contribution................prior to this series I was questioning his continued selection as much as Macca's...............

& it is my theory that Hamish is initially responsible for the better performance with the bat - Astle's runs were primarily scored in partnership with him......................
 

Ming

State 12th Man
Oh, so Astle's runs were all because of Hamish? What a shame....I guess Hamish wasn't there when Astle scored most of his Test and ODI centuries.....

Astle didn't do exactly badly against the Australians, where he averaged over 30, and looked the second best NZ batsman.
 

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