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*Official* South Africa vs England (3 ODI):Jan 27-Feb 04, 2023 in SAfrica

Molehill

International Captain
Whilst England are obviously missing some key players, and they have huge strength in the batting, the bowling has become quite a concern. Rashid is rarely amongst the wickets, Moeen barely worth bowling, Woakes only of use with the new ball. A fit again Archer will be good and Wood walks back into this team. Stone has been the one success of the tour so far. I fully expect that if Stokes is fit come September then he comes out of retirement.
 

Kenneth Viljoen

International Debutant
I think England are in good health , I agree with Chris and even when they lose , they are playing damn entertaining cricket , holders of the two Whiteball world cups and on a fantastic run of victories in Test cricket, this is merely a small speed bump , strong development structures keep England competitive.
 

Ashes81

State Vice-Captain
There's no doubt that our bowling is our weaker suit and much will depend on the fitness of Wood and Archer come the WC.

Both are vital to our hopes. Alongside Curran and Stokes ( I'd be v surprised if he doesn't play in the WC), then that's a pretty decent seam line up.

The spin twins of Rashid and Moeen Ali are a bit of a concern. Mo seems to be bowling less and less and Rash has lost his way a touch but we do have other options in Liam Dawson and perhaps even Rehan Ahmed.

As I've said previously I think we'll be there or thereabouts come the WC.
 

Molehill

International Captain
There's no doubt that our bowling is our weaker suit and much will depend on the fitness of Wood and Archer come the WC.

Both are vital to our hopes. Alongside Curran and Stokes ( I'd be v surprised if he doesn't play in the WC), then that's a pretty decent seam line up.

The spin twins of Rashid and Moeen Ali are a bit of a concern. Mo seems to be bowling less and less and Rash has lost his way a touch but we do have other options in Liam Dawson and perhaps even Rehan Ahmed.

As I've said previously I think we'll be there or thereabouts come the WC.
The other option is Livingstone instead of Moeen. I'd also expect Root to bowl a fair bit in an Indian World Cup too.
 

Socerer 01

International Regular
how does Ali still play odis in 2023? he was dropped rightfully halfway through the last world cup and no surprises, they won. since then barring the odd good knock he has barely been a factor in odis and hasn’t done anything that warrants such team security
 

Nintendo

International Captain
how does Ali still play odis in 2023? he was dropped rightfully halfway through the last world cup and no surprises, they won. since then barring the odd good knock he has barely been a factor in odis and hasn’t done anything that warrants such team security
He's been in fantastic t20 form that whole time and England seem to like his presence in the dressing room. There's also just not alot of other cricketers in England who can bat top #7 and give you consistent, quality overs of spin bowling. Mo does that + he goes at a high SR. If Livingstone was fit more often and had performed a bit better maybe they'de have kept mo out of the side.
 

Socerer 01

International Regular
He's been in fantastic t20 form that whole time and England seem to like his presence in the dressing room. There's also just not alot of other cricketers in England who can bat top #7 and give you consistent, quality overs of spin bowling. Mo does that + he goes at a high SR. If Livingstone was fit more often and had performed a bit better maybe they'de have kept mo out of the side.
what happened to Dawson? i thought he would have become a better player by now.. at this point it would be worth it to just ask Root to bowl a few with Livingstone to cover for Ali
 

Molehill

International Captain
He's been in fantastic t20 form that whole time and England seem to like his presence in the dressing room. There's also just not alot of other cricketers in England who can bat top #7 and give you consistent, quality overs of spin bowling. Mo does that + he goes at a high SR. If Livingstone was fit more often and had performed a bit better maybe they'de have kept mo out of the side.
Up until this series, Moeen had a lower ODI batting average than Willey (just sneaked above him now after that 50). His wickets come every 50 runs (Willey at 31). We wouldn't consider batting Willey at 6, not really sure why Mo continues to get the gig. I suspect he won't come World Cup time. Top 6 likely to be something along the lines of Bairstow, Roy, Root, Brook, Buttler, Stokes.
 

Nintendo

International Captain
Up until this series, Moeen had a lower ODI batting average than Willey (just sneaked above him now after that 50). His wickets come every 50 runs (Willey at 31). We wouldn't consider batting Willey at 6, not really sure why Mo continues to get the gig. I suspect he won't come World Cup time. Top 6 likely to be something along the lines of Bairstow, Roy, Root, Brook, Buttler, Stokes.
Stokes makes this lineup tons better in basically every way. Fills the #6 spot, adds a rational head in the lower middle order, and gives you a second new ball bowler so you can fit 2 spinners, 2 of archer wood and stone and somoene else to take the new rock

If stokes plays you can go something like
1.Bairstow/salt
2.Roy/salt
3.Root/Malan
4.Brook
5.Buttler/Billings
6.Stokes
7.Moeen/livingstone
8.Willey/Curran
9.Rashid/whoever else plays as a spinner
10.Wood/stone
11.Archer/stone

Willey/curran + stokes can share the new rock, wood/stone + archer/stone can consistently give you wickets in the middle. I'de like to fit both willey and curran in since willey can take the new rock and curran has suddenly turned into a death bowler, but I prefer having both spinners. What i'm saying is this lineup should make the knockout's in most circumstances and is fully capable of winning the cup. Take stokes out and the balance get's completely thrown off.
 

Ashes81

State Vice-Captain
Stokes makes this lineup tons better in basically every way. Fills the #6 spot, adds a rational head in the lower middle order, and gives you a second new ball bowler so you can fit 2 spinners, 2 of archer wood and stone and somoene else to take the new rock

If stokes plays you can go something like
1.Bairstow/salt
2.Roy/salt
3.Root/Malan
4.Brook
5.Buttler/Billings
6.Stokes
7.Moeen/livingstone
8.Willey/Curran
9.Rashid/whoever else plays as a spinner
10.Wood/stone
11.Archer/stone

Willey/curran + stokes can share the new rock, wood/stone + archer/stone can consistently give you wickets in the middle. I'de like to fit both willey and curran in since willey can take the new rock and curran has suddenly turned into a death bowler, but I prefer having both spinners. What i'm saying is this lineup should make the knockout's in most circumstances and is fully capable of winning the cup. Take stokes out and the balance get's completely thrown off.
Stokes is so important as you say for the balance of the team, which is why I'd be amazed if he doesn't play.

Our batting looks strong and our seam bowling too if Wood and Archer are fit.

The spinners are the biggest area of concern. Mo is on the slide but I think they'll probably stick with him over Livingstone, as he'll only need to bowl 3 or 4 overs, with Root and Stokes completing the 5th bowler stint with him.
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I mean Livingstone's injury is the sticking point here, he's been out awhile now, I think they almost certainly would have giving him a shot to replace moeen, but as is they've decided to stick with the Status Quo, because let's face it there's no-one obviously better.
 

Molehill

International Captain
Willey/curran + stokes can share the new rock, wood/stone + archer/stone can consistently give you wickets in the middle. I'de like to fit both willey and curran in since willey can take the new rock and curran has suddenly turned into a death bowler, but I prefer having both spinners. What i'm saying is this lineup should make the knockout's in most circumstances and is fully capable of winning the cup. Take stokes out and the balance get's completely thrown off.
Totally agree about Stokes, he just adds so much balance to the side. And like you say, he's got the calm head of knowing how to get over the line in tight games.

I think you can add Woakes in to the new ball squad and he's surely ahead of Willey. A key reason for winning in 2019 was Plunkett's ability to take wickets in the middle overs, I can see Wood/Stone being used in a similar way.
 

Nintendo

International Captain
Totally agree about Stokes, he just adds so much balance to the side. And like you say, he's got the calm head of knowing how to get over the line in tight games.

I think you can add Woakes in to the new ball squad and he's surely ahead of Willey. A key reason for winning in 2019 was Plunkett's ability to take wickets in the middle overs, I can see Wood/Stone being used in a similar way.
Like somoene else here posted, willey is averaging 38 with the bat @ a sr of 95 and something like 22 with the ball since the last WC. Think his allround stats + left arm angle are worth more than woakes if stokes is the other new ball bowler. Curran is ahead because I think hey'll be more threatening at the death, woakes has never shown anything to say he's a good death bowler.
 

Ashes81

State Vice-Captain
Thinking the Orchid will get it done eh?
I'm certainly hoping so ?

A year ago I wouldn't have given us a prayer and whilst you will start as favourites, I think it will be close.

If the series was in Oz, we'd take our usual hammering but home advantage is massive in test cricket and McCullum has really changed our mindset.

Whether we win or not, 1 thing is certain, we'll go into the series believing we can win and believe me that's not always been the case.
 

G. S. Kohli

International Vice-Captain
Game starts same time as 1st ODI but 3 hrs later than 2nd ODI

Eng last ODI win was in July, they lost 8 out of 10 ODI. Kock might sits out for Reza Hendriks or Janemaan Malan.

South Africa's attack have been pulling off rescue acts since WG Grace was a boy.
 

G. S. Kohli

International Vice-Captain
Day Night


?Sam Curran has been fined 15 percent of his match fee, following his send-off for Temba Bavuma
during the second ODI in Bloemfontein on Sunday

?last time England lost five ODIs in a row came at home during series against Sri Lanka and India in 2014. They have not lost six on the bounce since 2009.

?England have only played one previous ODI in Kimberley - an eight-wicket win over Zimbabwe in 2000.

?Wayne Parnell needs two wickets to reach 100 in ODIs. He will be the 13th South Africa to reach the milestone.
 

Dendarii

International Debutant
South Africa's attack have been pulling off rescue acts since WG Grace was a boy.
Huh? No idea what you're trying to say here. Ignoring the questionable history, surely every team has had its bowlers pull off rescue acts? Are South Africa really particularly notable in that regard?
 

Socerer 01

International Regular
Huh? No idea what you're trying to say here. Ignoring the questionable history, surely every team has had its bowlers pull off rescue acts? Are South Africa really particularly notable in that regard?
im convinced dude is a chatgpt bot being trained here with some of the random things he says frequently
 

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