***Official*** South Africa in India

[social]

Sehwag and Jaffer/Chopra/Gambhir/Karthik at the top, that's the reason? Please clarify.

Yep, no settled opening combination against SA's strength

The fact that Jaffer is even in consideration is ridiculous

Conditions in Oz had nothing to do with his failures, he is simply pretty ordinary against pace

Plus, have a look at the Indian's batting performance in Oz

Sehwag's figures are padded by the sitter Clarke dropped on 2 when he scored 150

Jaffer - poor

Dravid - poor

Ganguly - poor

Yuvraj - poor

Dhoni - poor

Too many guys out of form and too much reliance on Sachin and Laxman to back India

 

[social]

if u dnt take prathyush ...one with me for one week atleast ???

Yep

 

[social]

South Africa - India test series which is coming up in India? Want to have an avatar bet of 1 month on it?

Yep

 

[Pratters]

Yep

Cool. You are on...

 

[ret]

Squad for first two Tests: Wasim Jaffer, Virender Sehwag, Rahul Dravid, Sachin Tendulkar, Sourav Ganguly, VVS Laxman, Yuvraj Singh, Mahendra Singh Dhoni (wk), Irfan Pathan, Anil Kumble (capt), Harbhajan Singh, Murali Kartik, Sreesanth, RP Singh, Piyush Chawla (back-up)

source - cricinfo

Ishant ruled out .... No Gambhir .... Jaffar retained .... Yuvi & Murali Kartik there

My prefered X1

- Sehwag, Dravid, Laxman
- Tendulkar, Ganguly / Yuvi, Dhoni, Pathan
- Kumble, Bhajji, RP & Sree

 

[pasag]

I'm up for an avatar challenge against an Indian supporter along the same lines as well.

 

[Richard]

O0o0o0o0o0oh, interesting, would expect the optimism from social but not neccessarily from Gelman.

Much as I'm a South Africa fan, I'm far from confident in this series, as mentioned.

 

[Steulen]

Paul Harris to be the key.

If he really is the spinner that SA have been looking for for ages, India might be in for a nasty surprise. If he's just another Saffie B-movie, the Indians will run riot against a tiring one-dimensional pace attack unfit for Indian conditions. Or Graeme Smith does a Pup and takes 6-9, of course.

Anyway, India to win is my bet at this point.

 

[social]

O0o0o0o0o0oh, interesting, would expect the optimism from social but not neccessarily from Gelman.

Much as I'm a South Africa fan, I'm far from confident in this series, as mentioned.

Not optimism (as I dont care who wins) but realism

SA are being substantially underrated. They've won 2 recent series in the sub-continent, beaten India of late, and have the better bowling attack

On the other hand, India are suddenly world-beaters because they LOST a close series against a rebuilding Australia in non-bouncy conditions

Just how this makes them the certainties that some claim is totally beyond me

 

[Langeveldt]

Sheeysh, all this complicated TV network stuff in Australia - so nice and simple over here. The only places Sky Sports now doesn't have a contract for home games for are Pakistan and Sri Lanka. We get every Test and ODI (and presumably Twenty20 International too, but I don't care about those) from New Zealand, Australia, India, South Africa, England (obviously) and West Indies via the same network.

Yeah, but it costs about 40 pounds a month!

 

[Richard]

Not optimism (as I dont care who wins) but realism

SA are being substantially underrated. They've won 2 recent series in the sub-continent, beaten India of late, and have the better bowling attack

2 recent series? South Africa's record against Test-class teams on the subcontinent (you WILL NOT be telling me that winning in Bangladesh means a thing) reads: played 10, won 4, drawn 1, lost 5. 2 of those wins have come against Pakistan, who are nowhere near so omnipotent at home as India and Sri Lanka. They've won 1 series each in Sri Lanka and India, both occasions when the respective side was a fair shambles (1993 and 1999\2000). Until recently, South Africa hadn't beaten a Test-class team on the subcontinent (in a MATCH, never mind a series) since 2000.

They could easily have drawn all 4 of the series they lost in a row 2003\04-2006, but they didn't. They have one hell of a lot to prove in this series.

On the other hand, India are suddenly world-beaters because they LOST a close series against a rebuilding Australia in non-bouncy conditions

Just how this makes them the certainties that some claim is totally beyond me

No-one's claimed they're certainties, just fairly hot favourites. Because before that they won a series in England, came fairly close to winning one in South Africa, won one in West Indies, and because at home in the last 20 years their series record reads played 27, won 18, drawn 6, lost 3 (or drawn 7, lost 2 according to how you look at it). Now, admittedly 3 of the draws and 1 of the losses have come in the last 4 seasons, and they should've done better on all 4 occasions. But their record in that time is still formidable by most standards.

 

[tooextracool]

Paul Harris to be the key.

If he really is the spinner that SA have been looking for for ages, India might be in for a nasty surprise. If he's just another Saffie B-movie, the Indians will run riot against a tiring one-dimensional pace attack unfit for Indian conditions. Or Graeme Smith does a Pup and takes 6-9, of course.

Anyway, India to win is my bet at this point.

Paul Harris is a fairly decent bowler, probably the best spinner they have had since their return to sport, and i said so in the very first test i saw him bowl. However it would be somewhat unrealistic to expect him to be the spinner that SA have been looking for ages. That being said i expect him to do a fairly good job against India. Left arm bowlers who havent been afraid to toss it up have done decently in India in recent times(see Giles, Boje, Price).

 

[Richard]

Yeah, but it costs about 40 pounds a month!

We get it for £31 (Dad and my brother are stupid enough to pay another £7 for Sky Movies). Bargain, IMO.

 

[tooextracool]

No-one's claimed they're certainties, just fairly hot favourites. Because before that they won a series in England, came fairly close to winning one in South Africa, won one in West Indies, and because at home in the last 20 years their series record reads played 27, won 18, drawn 6, lost 3 (or drawn 7, lost 2 according to how you look at it). Now, admittedly 3 of the draws and 1 of the losses have come in the last 4 seasons, and they should've done better on all 4 occasions. But their record in that time is still formidable by most standards.

You cannot honestly tell me that they deserved to win the series in England.

 

[Richard]

Why not? It could have gone very differently if Dhoni had been given out to the edge to Prior in the First Test and hence had India lost, but they thoroughly outplayed England in the Second and Third Tests, won the Second (with just the small bit of fortune in the Vaughan second-innings wicket which was exceptionally annoying) and would very probably have won the Third had their priority been victory rather than avoiding defeat.

 

[tooextracool]

Not optimism (as I dont care who wins) but realism

SA are being substantially underrated. They've won 2 recent series in the sub-continent, beaten India of late, and have the better bowling attack

On the other hand, India are suddenly world-beaters because they LOST a close series against a rebuilding Australia in non-bouncy conditions

Just how this makes them the certainties that some claim is totally beyond me

I think i would give India the edge on this one, simply because they are playing at home. While some of the players in the side are somewhat questionable, i would back most of them to come good when they are playing at home in traditional subcontinental conditions.
Unfortunately i think neither side has a full strength bowling attack. Ishant and Zaheer are out for India, and unfortunately for all concerned Irfan may play in the first test. I do long for the day of seeing Praveen Kumar, Zaheer Khan and Ishant Sharma in the same side along with Sreesanth as 12th because that has the potential to be one of the best bowling attacks going around, not just in terms of the skill available but also in variation. Meanwhile SA are without Nel, Morkel has hardly shown anything to be rated highly and Ntini if anything has struggled to maintain his purple patch from a couple of years ago.

SA's batting though is always a worry. Bar Kallis, there is a distinct lack of class amongst the rest of the batters and unless this series marks the beginning of a new chapter for some of their batters i dont really see that changing anytime soon.

 

[tooextracool]

Why not? It could have gone very differently if Dhoni had been given out to the edge to Prior in the First Test and hence had India lost, but they thoroughly outplayed England in the Second and Third Tests, won the Second (with just the small bit of fortune in the Vaughan second-innings wicket which was exceptionally annoying) and would very probably have won the Third had their priority been victory rather than avoiding defeat.

Whether they were out and out the best team in the 2nd test is not beyond doubt. They definetly got the better of the conditions AFAIC and i think had they been put in to bat first we might have seen a reversal in the result. There isnt much doubt that they were the better team at the Oval, but India have traditionally had little difficulty at the Oval for the better part of the last 30 years. Im struggling to think of a time they actually came close to losing a game at the Oval.
As you yourself have noted, they almost certainly deserved to lose the first test, and no matter what way you look at it, I cant see how it should not have been anything less than a 1-1 scoreline.

 

[wpdavid]

Whether they were out and out the best team in the 2nd test is not beyond doubt. They definetly got the better of the conditions AFAIC and i think had they been put in to bat first we might have seen a reversal in the result. There isnt much doubt that they were the better team at the Oval, but India have traditionally had little difficulty at the Oval for the better part of the last 30 years. Im struggling to think of a time they actually came close to losing a game at the Oval.

1979 would be the one, although they probably came closer to winning it. A bit articficial, I know, as they only lost a batch of wickets at the end when upping the tempo to try and snatch a win, but it did end up very close either way.

 

[Richard]

Whether they were out and out the best team in the 2nd test is not beyond doubt. They definetly got the better of the conditions AFAIC and i think had they been put in to bat first we might have seen a reversal in the result. There isnt much doubt that they were the better team at the Oval, but India have traditionally had little difficulty at the Oval for the better part of the last 30 years. Im struggling to think of a time they actually came close to losing a game at the Oval.
As you yourself have noted, they almost certainly deserved to lose the first test, and no matter what way you look at it, I cant see how it should not have been anything less than a 1-1 scoreline.

The toss was helpful in the Second Test, of course it was, but even despite it I don't think I'd begrudge India the victory - it wasn't as if the swing and seam was lavish for England's entire innings then stopped the second India got bat in hand, nor as if England dropped catches, nor as if the bowlers bowled abysmally. And if Bell and Prior had played better and England had had a stronger lower-order they might just still have staved-off defeat even despite the gross misfortune that was the Vaughan dismissal. It wasn't as if the match was a repeat of Guyana 1998, the most disgraceful case of toss-decides-match I've ever seen.

 

[jeevan]

Also a factor is where the tests are being played. SA will be disappointed that they dont have tests at Bangalore & Mumbai (only domestic venues where India has lost more than once in the last 10 years, I believe, with 3 ea) or at Nagpur (most suits SA).

They'll be glad to not play at the fortresses at Kotla and Eden Gardens but that's for them not to lose tests.

Kanpur has something of a reputation for spin, and spinners have done well at Ahmedabad and Chennai too. So this Harris guy better be real good.

All in all, SA has drawn a bit of a short straw in terms of venues for winning a test in India (which you have to do atleast once to win a series).