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Official Rugby Thread

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Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Thats a bit harsh IMO - he kicked 6/6 against Fiji and before the last two misses tonight (the first from relatively wide out on the left hand touchline) hadn't exactly kicked poorly. That stat in the Super 14 is fairly interesting too. I do see your point though (e.g. the poor display against Scotland last year) but do feel your final comment is a bit unfair.
His general form in the Super 14 was extremely average (on par with Barnes' IMO) and he is extremely lucky to be in the side

However, on the kicking side, there's no point being surprised when history repeats itself

The fact is that Oz have a number of alternatives (O'Connor, Cooper, Ashley-Cooper etc) and Giteau has once again proven that he shouldnt be the one with the responsibility

Anyway, overall I'm not that disappointed to lose this match as winning tests against any quality test side with your 3rd choice front row being pushed all over the park and conceding penalties/posession/position at the drop of a hat is never going to be easy
 

JBH001

International Regular
Not often I comment on rugby in here, although I tend to watch test matches avidly, and ever since Deans' elevation to the Australian coaching job have been following the Wallabies as well (I am one of those who disagreed with Henry's re-appointment and the manner of it after the 2007 WC).

Frankly, England deserved this win as I thought they were largely the better team. Australia were strangely flat, and didnt seem able to lift in the second half either. It is fair enough that Australia were missing their first choice front row, and Horwill and Palu (although I think Brown is stepping up as a no. 8) but for me the main issue is the lack of fire and consistent physicality in the Australian forward pack. The game was really won and lost, especially in the second half, at the breakdown where the English forwards contested possession far more fiercely than their Australian counterparts. Its not the first time I've seen this happen, the most notable instance being at the end of last year's tri-nation where the AB forward pack just annihilated the Wallaby forwards who simply rolled over by the 60th minute like whipped curs. Australia are a good side, albeit seemingly forever stuck in some "youth" and "rebuilding" phase, and Deans a good coach, but the Australian forwards, I think, dont have what it takes to be serious challengers in the 2011 WC, and will not be upto par in this year's tri-nations either.

As a last comment, I've read comments that Deans should have recalled Dunning and Baxter instead of blooding three rookie front rowers at the same time. This would make sense if either of these players had ever been any good, but they were crap in their international career, Baxter especially, and would have added nothing to the Wallaby effort. Deans was right to keep them out.
 
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Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Would you have picked Deans as our coach over Henry?

I wouldn't have minded Gatland as the coach if we wanted a change. But I have hard feelings against Deans. He has an average record as the Aussie coach.
 

ripper868

International Coach
Sonny Bill Williams has been signed by Canterbury, will likely have his first run on July 30 vs Hawkes Bay in Canterbury.
 

Somerset

Cricketer Of The Year
Didn't get the chance to post last night about the NZ Maori's victory over the midweek English team in Napier - a really top game of rugby, highly entertaining, and sensational to see the Maori back up a great victory over Ireland last week with another over England. Hosea Gear was outstanding with three tries though the likes of McAlister and Messam (and even Stephen Brett) have showed in the last couple of matches that they're worthy of another shot in the All Blacks IMO.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
The TAB has set the odds at $1.02 for an all blacks victory. I think last week it was $1.05 or something. This week there is no point in betting with those odds. Don't get me wrong I don't disagree with the odds. But it is kind of like what is the point of betting.

Wales are paying $10.00 should be paying more I reckon if they want to attract bets on them.

NZ are going to do this in a doddle with no stephen jones starting.
 

ripper868

International Coach
Going to the Aus v Ireland game tonight, pumped, hopefully draw a strong crowd on the back of the Reds season this year. really looking forward to it, my two favourite teams (save whoever is playing england)

Going with the olds who are up for my birthday weekend, beers with the old man at the game and pub after, then into the city with mates and to meet up with chicky, tonight i am a happy man, normalcy has been restored...now lets hope i don't get the idea of going to the casino and blowing $300 on nothing.

Look for the streaker...it won't be me.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Have a great time at the game.

A comment on the AB game. Can't stand the half back for Wales. He is a good defender. But he is so SLLOOOWW at gettign the ball to the backs.

* I think I will run for 5 steps towards the fly half before passing it to him * mean time the whole ab defensive line springs forward 5 steps.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Have a great time at the game.

A comment on the AB game. Can't stand the half back for Wales. He is a good defender. But he is so SLLOOOWW at gettign the ball to the backs.

* I think I will run for 5 steps towards the fly half before passing it to him * mean time the whole ab defensive line springs forward 5 steps.
 

Somerset

Cricketer Of The Year
Man, this is an abortion of a test. **** handling, **** set pieces and **** continuity.
Yup terribly average match - easily the least entertaining test match I've watched this year. Nice to see Rene Ranger make his debut though, even if he didn't receive a lot of the ball to make an impact.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
I thought Wales played a smarter kicking game than last week. From what I remember - there were clearing kicks towards the sidelines so that the all blacks didn't have the whole width of the field to launch a counter attack.

Cruden was lucky to get his try - I thought it was the wrong option to kick and the full back should have come up with the ball. But the game was over by that stage.

The rest of the game was not that memorable to me to be honest.
 

Somerset

Cricketer Of The Year
I thought Wales played a smarter kicking game than last week. From what I remember - there were clearing kicks towards the sidelines so that the all blacks didn't have the whole width of the field to launch a counter attack.

Cruden was lucky to get his try - I thought it was the wrong option to kick and the full back should have come up with the ball. But the game was over by that stage.

The rest of the game was not that memorable to me to be honest.
I thought Cruden made a poor decision too, and Wales would've been annoyed to give away such a soft try after they did so well in the final 10 minutes to finally get one against the All Blacks (would've been four consecutive games IIRC without one otherwise).

As far as Wales' kicking game goes, I wasn't that impressed by it - sure it worked in terms of territory for a large part of the game but Ireland showed the way to at least press the All Blacks when they kept ball in hand and attacked in the second half in New Plymouth. Also I doubt teams will want to be giving Guildford, Jane, et al. too many extra chances to seize opportunities with kicks down their wings - even if the ball goes out the quick throw and counter attack mentality of those players is such a danger to the opposition.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
France demolished in Argentina, too.

Anyone know when Argentina last scored four tries on a top-nine nation?
Not a clue, tbh. Have a suspicion they might've done it to us in 97 when a second-string England (weakened because of the Lions tour) went down in the second of a two test series.

Bodes well for the sweaties' revival too, whilst acknowledging yer French are the most mercurial of teams.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah glad you agree about the Cruden kick. At least he has a test try now I guess.

You are right that kicking it to our wings is also asking for trouble. But they didn't get burned like they did the previous week.

My random comment for the day -
It would be a risky but I think one tactic to beating the All Blacks would be committing an extra man to each breakdown to secure your ball and slow down our ball. Every game I watch we seem to win it at the breakdown. Our loose forwards are more physical there than the opposition. And then we seem to win the game.
The disadvantage of committing too many men is that you will be spread thin out wide. So that is why I say it is risky.

Smith from Australia used to impress me with how competitive he was in that part of the game. But it was like he was fighting a one man battle.

The best at it from Aussie was Simon Poidevin (spelling?) in the 80s - he would do anything to win the ball.

On the AB side announced - I didn't realise that Guilford was left out. I thought he had been playing well. Hadn't scored a try but can't remember him ever having a chance to. I am starting to give up on Joe R - he was terrible under the high ball last year. And he has slowed down now. Could have scored a try a couple of weeks ago but he didn't even attempt it in the end because he knew he didn't have the gas.
 

Somerset

Cricketer Of The Year
My random comment for the day -
It would be a risky but I think one tactic to beating the All Blacks would be committing an extra man to each breakdown to secure your ball and slow down our ball. Every game I watch we seem to win it at the breakdown. Our loose forwards are more physical there than the opposition. And then we seem to win the game.
The disadvantage of committing too many men is that you will be spread thin out wide. So that is why I say it is risky.

Smith from Australia used to impress me with how competitive he was in that part of the game. But it was like he was fighting a one man battle.

The best at it from Aussie was Simon Poidevin (spelling?) in the 80s - he would do anything to win the ball.
Interesting tactic - risky IMO not only to exposing yourself out wide to an All Black backline thats been able to create gaps almost at will in the first test against Wales and Ireland the week before, but also with the refereeing so far in Super 14 and the international season being very quick to stamp down on the defending team slowing the ball down (not rolling away, releasing the tackler, etc). I think Wales had the right approach in the first half in Dunedin and Ireland in the second half in New Plymouth - rush up on defence as Wales did, and hold the ball and attack in continous phases as Ireland did. I imagine South Africa will be employing a similar strategy though I'd say they'll be able to commit to it for the full 80 minutes.

On the AB side announced - I didn't realise that Guilford was left out. I thought he had been playing well. Hadn't scored a try but can't remember him ever having a chance to. I am starting to give up on Joe R - he was terrible under the high ball last year. And he has slowed down now. Could have scored a try a couple of weeks ago but he didn't even attempt it in the end because he knew he didn't have the gas.
To be honest theres a dilemna with the wingers - Sivivatu's injured, and Hosea Gear, arguably the form winger in the whole country, can't even make the squad. Bit harsh on Guildford I agree though theres only so many players to retain in the squad and I guess it came down to a spot between Ranger and Guildford. My hunch is that Ranger's versatility (centre, wing, have seen him play at 12 too) just edged him ahead. Thought Benson Stanley might be a casuality but pleased to see him retained, though Luke McAlister must've been on the verge of selection.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
TAB odds are out.
$1.50 for NZ $2.50 for SA for this saturday.

I am really interested in the logic behind these odds. We havn't beaten SA in a while. Granted the game is in NZ but I think given these odds I might put some money on SA.

Also the TAB has published odds for the world cup next year, nz are favourites

I am firmly tempted to put $5 on Russia the odds are so tempting. I guess that is the whole idea of offering outragous odds on a long shot.

I think my betting strategy will be bet on SA. Look to be the best value for money.

Definitely won't be betting on Aussie.

1 New Zealand 2.25
2 Australia 4.50
3 South Africa 4.00
4 France 9.00
5 England 15.00
6 Ireland 25.00
7 Wales 30.00
8 Argentina 50.00
9 Scotland 100.00
10 Italy 500.00
11 Fiji 500.00
12 Samoa 500.00
13 Tonga 1,000.00
14 Canada 1,500.00
15 USA 1,500.00
16 Georgia 10,000.00
17 Namibia 10,000.00
18 Russia 10,000.00
19 Japan 1,000.00
 

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