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*Official* Pro-Wrestling Thread II

Teja.

Global Moderator
I'm watching WWE PPVs starting from Backlash 2002 which was my first full PPV as a kid and writing up reviews ITT mostly edited from my comments while watching the PPV. Will do this till I get bored off the exercise.

BACKLASH 2002



Kansas, Missouri

It's amazing to see JR and King calling it. King has had rough patches through his career but I think '02 falls around his peak and JR is obviously the best of all-time. There is absolutely no comparison with the twitter era announcing of 2015. Obviously this has as much to do with Vince's change in approach to commentary as it has to do with the talent itself.

#Billy Kidman v. Tajiri (C) (w/ Torrie Wilson) for the cruiserweight title: Tajiri has Torrie petrified and 'covered up' in a kimono in some ****ty storyline about him controlling her. Fast paced action as expected but also a ton of great spots, a cool spot where Tajiri hits the trademark big kick to the head and it looks brutal, near fall. Kidman does a weakish rana for a near fall. Tajiri does the tarantula. In the best sequence of the match, Kidman misses a shooting star press and Tajiri hits the third big kick of the match for two. Kidman powerbombs Tajiri off the top rope - brutal, surely this is it? Two and a three quarters! This is awesome etc. Tajiri red mists Kidman for a roll up at 9:07. Very subtle and non-obvious misiting from Tajiri and it's only apparent after the three count. I wasn't particularly excited about this match but these two packed in a ton action in a balanced way in ten minutes. Great opener.

Result - Tajiri via pinfall - 6/10

Bradshaw and Farookh meet and pretend to be longlost brothers meeting after half a decade though the brand split happened two weeks ago. "You look in great shape man"? **** off guys.

#Scott Hall (w/ Xpac) v. Bradshaw (w/ Farooq): By this point Scott Hall was probably the worst wrestler in the roster, looking like he really couldn't give a **** and physically just wasn't in the condition to compete either, DDT from Bradshaw for two, sluggish resthold after sluggish resthold from Hall, great looking clothesline from hell, Xpac makes the save and Xpac trolls the APA in the ring by running around for Hall to hit the softest looking lowblow of all-time on Bradhsaw into a roll-up for victory at 5:40. Thank god it's over, felt like fifteen minutes.

Result - Scott Hall via pinfall - 1/10

#Jazz (C) v. Trish Stratus for the women's championship: Molly assaults Trish before the match. Why did the E always have to do bitches be cray stuff with all diva matches? Jazz sideslams and powerrbombs Trish taking advantage of the assault. Trish fights back briefly but gets put in a boston crab and then an STF to tap out. It was better than I expected and the action filled out the time but the stupid angle at the beginning sort of ruined it. 4:25.

Result - Jazz wins via pinfall - 2.5/10


#Jeff Hardy v. Brock Lesnar - Brock's first official match after a month of random destruction. Standard squash match resulting in a TKO after an F5 and a triple powerbomb. Jeff meekly does an unnecessary fightback in the middle and hits the swanton requiring a ridiculous amount of suspension of disbelief to watch. I liked the match, it served it's purpose of putting Brock over huge and wasn't too short. 5:32.

Result - Brock Lesnar wins via KO - 4/10


#Edge v. Kurt Angle - Both guys were at the peak of their powers at this point, Kurt was probably the best in the world and they put on an fantastic match. Edge takes a leaf out of Angle's book and delivers a couple of incredibly stiff looking belly-to-belly and german suplexes. Angle hits an angle slam 8 minutes into the match the match and Edge kicks out! Wow, didn't expect that. Angle-lock time, Edge reverses it. Edge looks like a champ by this point - taking everything Angle throws at him. Angle is pissed off and gets the chair, Edge kicks it straight into his face, Angle finishes it with another angle slam at 13:26 and I think it's close to impossible to have a better match than this in 13 minutes. Angle wins, Edge ends up looking much stronger than he was entering the match. Beautiful stuff.

Result - Angle wins via pinfall - 8/10

Y2J comes in and cuts a promo talking about how a month ago he was headlining wrestlemania and now he can't even get on the card. Solid stuff - always love heel jericho mike work. He also tells us that he's leaving the arena right now which obviously means he won't be interfering in any matches later in the night. Totally legit.

# Rob Van Dam (C) v. Eddie Guerrero for the Intercontinental title - My expectations are off the charts for these guys, pumped for this match and they deliver. King shines through this match with his homoerotic love for the latino heat. A ton of high flying spots you'd expect from these two guys, Eddie misses his first frog splash but stops RVD's advances and hits a great looking flip powerbomb, RVD kicks out at 2.9. Ref bump at which point Eddie gives him a neck-breaker 'on the title', though it doesn't look like it made the least bit of difference, would've preferred a DDT to highlight the extra effect of the title, Eddie finishes with a great frog splash. New champion at 11:45. Very cool match and again packed a ton of action in a short time.

Result - Eddie Guerrero via pinfall - 7/10

#Undertaker v. Steve Austin for No.1 Contendership for the WWE title - I had high expectations for this because of how great their match at Summerslam 1998 (I think?) was but Austin lacked the intensity which permeates his best performances and that combined with Taker's deliberate slow pacing led to a long winded, slow brawl. Austin stuns Taker but Flair is bumped out, the crowd chants to six etc. Taker hits the chokelsam, Austin kicks out at two. Taker gets a chair and Flair intercepts leading to a spot where Taker boots the chair on Austin's head, Flair counts to three despite Austin's foot being on the rope probably to save his new brand from prolonging the agony. Both of them do teh little things right but it was still a bad match and went on for 27 minutes. You shouldn't be having matches this big unless you really want to go.

Result - Undertaker via pinfall - 4/10

#Billy & Chuck (w/Rico) vs. Al Snow & Maven for the tag team titles: Smoke break match in between the two main events. Basically no action A rico interference leads to a chuck superkick onto Maven for the pin at 6:00. Moving on...

Result - Billy & Chuck via pinfall - 1.5/10

#Triple H (c) v. Hulk Hogan for the undisputed title - I didn't go in expecting anything but Hogan still managed to make the match unintentionally funny. HHH was stellar with his work on Hogan's knee and made it feel like a story. I know it was past his peak but he really was a standout among the big faces in the company at this point. Multiple ref bumps and interferences from Jericho and Undertaker later, Hulk Hogan is too honourable to pin HHH after a Taker hit but doesn't mind hitting a legdrop on a knocked out HHH and then pinning him, I'm sure that's very honourable, brother. HHH basically carries an old man to a watchable match - 19:00.

Result - Hulk Hogan via pinfall - 3/10

Overall, the three matches which made the PPV worth watching all occupied a combined 35 minutes or so of the real estate. Hogan really needs to **** off the main event scene. WM 18 was great for him but he shouldn't be doing main event level matches consistently. The two big matches were far too long, not horrible but were a drag nevertheless. An average PPV - 5/10
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Haha iirc that Hogan match was better than the one with Undertaker that happened a month later - the one that featured the worst chokeslam of all time. It was around that point that I began to lose my interest in wrestling for a while I think. I can remember being underwhelmed by the Backlash card (no Rock, no match for Jericho, Austin just wasn't the same by that point, and I just wasn't interested in Hogan) and thinking "nah".

Good write up though Teej.
 

duffer

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
You know Smackdown has been heavily "enhanced" when Manchester City mentions get a huge boos and United ones get huge pops. Lame
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
You know Smackdown has been heavily "enhanced" when Manchester City mentions get a huge boos and United ones get huge pops. Lame
I highly doubt they edited that. I've been shows and gigs in Manchester where it's gone either way. It's not really true that Man U don't have fans in Manchester it's more the amount that they have in the rest of the country.
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Judgment Day '02 was one of my favourite PPVs as a kid, mainly for the Trips-Jericho Hell in a Cell match. That said, WWE managed to not do much at all with what, on paper, was an awesome roster around that time.

Constant title switches kinda sucked too. Trips was ****-hot after his Royal Rumble return and he drops it to an old man, a month after he wins the WM main event? Wut?
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Judgment Day '02 was one of my favourite PPVs as a kid, mainly for the Trips-Jericho Hell in a Cell match. That said, WWE managed to not do much at all with what, on paper, was an awesome roster around that time.

Constant title switches kinda sucked too. Trips was ****-hot after his Royal Rumble return and he drops it to an old man, a month after he wins the WM main event? Wut?
Jericho so should have won that match though.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Just looking back actually, though I can overlook the WM loss to HHH (it was a poor match, generally speaking, but the face invariably wins these matches, so i don't begrudge Jericho losing here), but that loss really kicked off what was, imo, the absolute worst period for Jericho from any of his times in WWE. Was booked like crap. Just looked it up; he went 7 months without picking up a single win on PPV.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Trips was ****-hot after his Royal Rumble return and he drops it to an old man, a month after he wins the WM main event? Wut?
Nah after Mania he was sucking balls as a face and WWE saw it quickly Crowd didn't give a **** whereas Hogan was hot. Sure you can say it was short term but no way was Trips hot by March-April.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Would have seemed weird and forced though. HHH wasn't mega over, but neither were people desperate to boo him. Him going heel out of the blue after them spending months trying to push him as a face would have screwed with the other ongoing narratives they had set up at the time (not that this sort of thing ever stopped them before, or since, mind you).
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
It was obviously knee-jerk to give it to Hogan, but turning a face WWE champion heel mid-reign is pretty unusual tbh. Don't think that would have been a good option.

They just panicked at the ****ness that is Triple H (a) as a face and (b) when he is alone without a stable/manager
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Just looking back actually, though I can overlook the WM loss to HHH (it was a poor match, generally speaking, but the face invariably wins these matches, so i don't begrudge Jericho losing here), but that loss really kicked off what was, imo, the absolute worst period for Jericho from any of his times in WWE. Was booked like crap. Just looked it up; he went 7 months without picking up a single win on PPV.
I actually liked Steph as a heel back in the early 2000s, but the worst thing about Trips vs. Jericho feud heading into Mania was they made it all about Trips vs. Steph, and not Trips vs. Jericho.

Plus they kept saying how Triple H's quad was hanging by a string. And then he just dominates Jericho.

Destroyed Jericho's cred. Obviously he should have lost to Trips at Mania, but not in the way they did it.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
It was obviously knee-jerk to give it to Hogan, but turning a face WWE champion heel mid-reign is pretty unusual tbh. Don't think that would have been a good option.

They just panicked at the ****ness that is Triple H (a) as a face and (b) when he is alone without a stable/manager
Trying to think of WWE champs who have transitioned from face to heel whilst actually holding the WWE title now, and I can't think of many.

CM Punk went from face to heel by turning on the Rock on RAW that one time. Other than that I can't think of any other really clear cut examples.

I guess Jericho was still kind of a face/tweener when he beat Austin for the Undisputed title, even if he immediately became a total heel the next night on RAW. I guess Austin himself also transitioned from heel to face in 2001 when Vince wanted the "old Stone Cold" back for the Invasion too, even if that only lasted for about...one match haha.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
When you look back, the way Austin and Angle were booked throughout 2001 was so inconsistent, and yet it was awesome. Like clearly many decisions just weren't good for business (and overall turning Austin whilst Rock was away probably cost them a bucket load of cash), but I still loved Austin's heel turn when I look back because it was just fun.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
I actually liked Steph as a heel back in the early 2000s, but the worst thing about Trips vs. Jericho feud heading into Mania was they made it all about Trips vs. Steph, and not Trips vs. Jericho.

Plus they kept saying how Triple H's quad was hanging by a string. And then he just dominates Jericho.

Destroyed Jericho's cred. Obviously he should have lost to Trips at Mania, but not in the way they did it.
Yeah, whilst the match itself wasn't a squash by any stretch, I don't think there was anyone in the world that believed Jericho had a cat in hell's chance of winning. And as is often said, the fact that it went on after Rock and Hogan meant that it was doomed from the get go.

Like you say, the build up was terrible and really didn't help things. There was that really stupid angle where they tried to get heat on Jericho by putting him in a segment where he had to pick up the **** of HHH's dog (which he then ran over with a car, iirc). Way to make a main event talent look good hey?

I don't hate on Jericho as a heel and holding the undisputed title as much as I used to, but there were so many small things that if they had done better would have made it just seem so much better for mine. For a start, I don't see why they felt the need to have Jericho grow that ridiculous and stupid goatee, and have him start wearing ring attire that would look more suited to Disco Inferno. They could have just kept him as the same character he was when he was a face (and got over really well) but played up other aspects of it, but instead they made him look like a joke, and everything just went downhill. The fact that he then just started losing to everyone meant his credibility was shot, and imo he didn't really recover from that until he left the company and came back in 2008.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
When you look back, the way Austin and Angle were booked throughout 2001 was so inconsistent, and yet it was awesome. Like clearly many decisions just weren't good for business (and overall turning Austin whilst Rock was away probably cost them a bucket load of cash), but I still loved Austin's heel turn when I look back because it was just fun.
Yeah, I think the fact that people using the fact that it lost a load of money as a stick to beat it with is somewhat harsh imo. I don't dispute that Austin's turn was perhaps really bad for business, but watching it as a young fan I totally bought into it. I really felt that heel Stone Cold was a legit horrible bad guy who scared the hell out of me. And that's before he shifted from the badass two man power trip Stone Cold into the guitar playing funny Stone Cold.

Had HHH and Benoit not got injured I really think that period could have turned out a treat. Rock might have been away, but with everyone else on the roster fit and healthy they would have had loads of fresh programming they could have churned out till he returned, and boosted loads of other guys to boot. Feuds like Benoit v Austin and Jericho v Austin alone could have lasted for several months, for instance. And that's before you work out all the possible combos for feuds you could get out of HHH, Kane, Undertaker etc...
 

OverratedSanity

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Best thing about Jericho winning the title at Vengeance was that Rock let Y2J beat him with the Rockbottom. Pretty unprecedented for a face to be beaten with his own finisher. Wasn't clean obviously, but still.

Edit: I know someone's going to mention Montreal.
 
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sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Sledger, what do you think of this from solo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QStOxXgVCcY
Yeah I pretty much agree with all of what he says here.

I don't think there's anything wrong with using older stars, per se, even if it is just to get ratings up or to sell merchandise. But if you're going to use them in that way, and essentially try and build entire shows around nostalgia etc... you shouldn't be surprised that people are ambivalent to the current product. If you make your bed you've got to lie in it etc...

Edit: There's also a difference, imo, between getting a guy who is legit mega over like Rock to come back and actually work a proper programme, which benefits the product as a whole (i.e. get's people interested and helps elevate the guys he works with) and having one of cameo's where an old guy comes back and makes the current champ look like a fool for 15 mins before pissing off again.

The Rollins exchange with HBK the other week was a good example. HBK comes out, basically says how Rollins will never be as good as him, Rollins just stands there and takes it and then slinks off. Had he attacked HBK and laid him out I wouldn't have minded this at all. Had Rollins not spent the last 1 million weeks jobbing to everyone on the roster, and actually had been built stronger, I wouldn't have minded either. As it was though, since Rollins basically lost every TV match for months, my reaction to HBK telling him how **** he was, was basically "yeah, I can see why you would say that tbf", which is pretty damning since this was a guy who was the world friggin champion.
 
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