*Official* Pool A Discussion

[Rik]

Well, the Indians are planning to make Bangar the fifth bowler by replacing Kaif with him. Shouldn't make much of a difference because Kaif was totally off-colour anyway. Bangar's bowling, if it clicks will be a bonus.

But has it properly clicked yet? A bowling average of over 50 makes me think not. I really wouldn't mind seeing AA back, he can score quickly. Also it will make some of us go wild with excitement that their idol is playing! Eddie...could DD interview AA about his lack of oppertunities in the Cup and how he manages to look so angry all the time?

 

[Anil]

But has it properly clicked yet? A bowling average of over 50 makes me think not. I really wouldn't mind seeing AA back, he can score quickly. Also it will make some of us go wild with excitement that their idol is playing! Eddie...could DD interview AA about his lack of oppertunities in the Cup and how he manages to look so angry all the time?

AA, Bangar....it really doesn't make much of a difference. Bangar has also shown that he can score quickly. The fifth bowler will go for runs anyway against Australia unless they have a huge collapse or something(a very, very unlikely scenario, but I guess I can dream about it...). So, if Bangar gets hit, they can go for Mongia, Sachin, Ganguly, Sehwag.....somehow complete those 10 overs.

 

[luckyeddie]

Eddie...could DD interview AA about his lack of oppertunities in the Cup and how he manages to look so angry all the time?

Now there's a thought......

 

[marc71178]

AA, Bangar....it really doesn't make much of a difference. Bangar has also shown that he can score quickly. The fifth bowler will go for runs anyway against Australia unless they have a huge collapse or something(a very, very unlikely scenario, but I guess I can dream about it...). So, if Bangar gets hit, they can go for Mongia, Sachin, Ganguly, Sehwag.....somehow complete those 10 overs.

The way it's going, they won't need a 5th bowler!

 

[Anil]

The way it's going, they won't need a 5th bowler!

They are pathetic and at this point, in this form, they can book their return tickets for after the first round(if they haven't already done so). Zimbabwe must be licking their lips in anticipation after this showing.

 

[full_length]

Or they can rise to the challenge.

When they are coasting things probably look easy. Now its likely that everything looks tough! It's all the more creditable to win from here.

 

[Gotchya]

I have to agree with FL. There is no point in such pessimism. Still if they can, they might go through.

 

[Gotchya]

Just wondering, Zimbabwe were gifted four points, they should have 12 points by the time they end up..will their NRR be the same staggering above 3?

 

[Anil]

Just wondering, Zimbabwe were gifted four points, they should have 12 points by the time they end up..will their NRR be the same staggering above 3?

Yes, it will.

 

[Anil]

I have to agree with FL. There is no point in such pessimism. Still if they can, they might go through.

When the captain of the team declares that he is clueless about what's going wrong, a little pessimism creeps into the best of fans.

 

[full_length]

He said he's clueless as to what exactly went wrong and what to do next, right after that match.
That's no big deal considering the source- Ganguly is forthright. Think a little and you'll see that Shaun Pollock for one is completely clueless. He just wont say it.
After the drubbing we got any captain would be completely shell shocked. And Saurav being Saurav, he said so.

I expect Ganguly to hit back. It's happened before.

People often hark back to their best moments when they're down. India's looking back at that famous comeback against Australia. You'll remember the castigation Ganguly got for being 'negative' and clueless after the Mumbai test. Our eminent -eminently misguided - journalists and know-alls missed that he said at that Mumbai presentation ceremony that there are two tests to go and we're going to try to win both of them. He said right then that everything is not over, Gilli just took it away that match, but there are two more tests to win the series. Then Ian Chappel (the dolt he proved to be then) took Saurav apart (and the skipper reacted too) for saying that Gilli just took it away that match. They didnt look at the positive comment he made that he thought we were capable of winning the next two. Saurav said it as it was right then. He said that the match was much much closer than it looked. Gilli and Hayden won it singlehandedly by scoring 150 odd in 30. And they were able to hit whatever the Indians managed to shell out. What's wrong with that?

The same thing is happening now. People should have got used to Ganguly's frank comments by now. He's criticised/praised his players outright in public when most people just say the usual words apart from sledging. Over the past two years I've seen that when Saurav says something as a skipper, then you can be pretty sure that you know that he's keeping it real. Ponting has come out after the win saying that Indians cant play bounce and pace. Before the match he just said that the Indian batsmen are dangerous etc. and all the other usual words while Saurav talked about what the Indians were thinking. That's just the way he is. Most captains/teams would be clueless after such a drubbing. If you saw the match, it wont be a surprise to you to hear that the Indian team is stunned, right? That doesnt mean the captain or team is down and out and not trying their hardest. I for one will judge after looking at how they respond from here on.

Really, the press is talking about the money players make, that it is not related to performance etc etc. but the guys that do zero work for their pay are the journos. They need something, anything to write about and I was simply disgusted to see the low quality journalism after the match. Every journalist out there is saying exactly what you said just now Anil- Saurav is clueless. Kill him :rolleyes: Only you're saying this in a message board and they actually get paid for this.

Prem Panicker just wrote an entire column out of that one word! duh!

As captaincy goes, how does someone like Pollock get away with his insipid shows time after time? Cronje started this. Their bowling changes are as follows:
Bowl the opening bowlers six overs each. Then bring in Donald and the fourth bowler for six overs each. After the 24th over, bring in Klusener/Cronje or whoever is playing and so on.
Atleast Saurav had a plan against the Aussies. Yet Cronje was a great captain and so is Pollock but Saurav should be axed!

 

[marc71178]

Yes, it will.

Can't be certain of that.
They'll lose RR if Aus get a hold of them.

 

[Anil]

Buddy, being forthright and honest is great. What his statement implies though, atleast to me is that:

The team as a whole does not know what is going on. If you look back at the match against Australia, the pitch was not very bouncy, Lee and even McGrath were not bowling at their best. Only Gillespie bowled a real tight line and length. As far as the spinners were concerned, well, spin is India's staple diet and the spinners on show for Aus were hardly world class. Against this backdrop, five of the top six batsmen had soft dismissals. The team did not remotely look like it would last 50 overs. At one stage, they didn't look like they would cross 100. I wouldn't blame the bowling too much after the show the batsmen put up. Our bowling is severely limited at the best of times and yesterday was definitely not the best of times. To put it in a nutshell, we went down without a fight(and we definitely had a lot to fight for and a lot to prove). So, what I am saying is that I am not criticizing the team's loss to the best team in the world, but the manner in which they lost it.

What does all this tell you about the team? Lack of confidence? Yes, but it's much more than that. It also shows a lack of responsibility, lack of commitment, lack of team spirit.

I know the Indian team has always been inconsistent, but the NZ tour and now this shows that the team has collectively hit a trough, the like of which has not been seen in this team in recent times.

 

[Anil]

Can't be certain of that.
They'll lose RR if Aus get a hold of them.

No, you misunderstood. I was saying that they get the 4 points against England and also get to maintain their +3.4 NRR. Obviously, if lose to some team/s, their NRR will come down.

 

[marc71178]

I see, yes - I thought he was asking if when Zim have 12 points, they have a NRR over 3.

 

[krkode]

When is the time to love and support your favorite team the MOST? When they bamboozle, beat up everybody and cruise to a superbly easy victory or when they're at their hardest hard, lowest low, and worst?

I would think the latter. The vastly demoralizing actions of many "fans" is also, i believe, a factor in players' performances. When they win, people love them - great. But when they lose, few people have the same decensy to support and encourage this very same team they call their favorite.

How must a player play when he's under the pressure of having his house burnt down, his windows broken or his family hurt? I don't see a way...many Indian and Pakistani players just keep going despite all this, and one can be glad that we have atleast a handful of individuals who are still trying their hardest. Now even the Zimbabweans are under pressure with players' families in jail or in danger of going to jail...

...and still so little...

 

[full_length]

The team as a whole does not know what is going on. If you look back at the match against Australia, the pitch was not very bouncy, Lee and even McGrath were not bowling at their best. Only Gillespie bowled a real tight line and length. As far as the spinners were concerned, well, spin is India's staple diet and the spinners on show for Aus were hardly world class. Against this backdrop, five of the top six batsmen had soft dismissals. The team did not remotely look like it would last 50 overs. At one stage, they didn't look like they would cross 100. I wouldn't blame the bowling too much after the show the batsmen put up. Our bowling is severely limited at the best of times and yesterday was definitely not the best of times. To put it in a nutshell, we went down without a fight(and we definitely had a lot to fight for and a lot to prove). So, what I am saying is that I am not criticizing the team's loss to the best team in the world, but the manner in which they lost it.

By all means criticize it. So do I.
I've said earlier that they had absolutely everything going for them. Infact, the Aussies even dropped a catch..
Their performance left a lot to be desired.

What does all this tell you about the team? Lack of confidence? Yes, but it's much more than that. It also shows a lack of responsibility, lack of commitment, lack of team spirit.

Maybe. I dont see how you figured out the lack of team spirit part..

I know the Indian team has always been inconsistent, but the NZ tour and now this shows that the team has collectively hit a trough, the like of which has not been seen in this team in recent times.

Hence Ganguly's reaction. I would have guessed that the Indians would have been stunned by their own ineptitude that match.
He simply said so. Coming from Ganguly, that's hardly an indicator that anyone's given up yet or a stick to beat him with.

I think it's just a case of media looking for soundbytes (whatever that is!) that they pick on one word and say it means a world of things.

Anyway, to me, Ganguly's reaction wasnt anything unexpected or bad. Again, he did say that we will look to win the remaining matches. He said that Australia will surely qualify but the other two places are still very open and there are four matches to go. That's realistic and positive.
He said that if we kept batting this way there's no answer he can possibly have. That's the plain truth and the exact way hes always talked.
There's really nothing to it. But the media does have to make its money..
hyping up some people (contrary to popular belief that's not restricted to Indians..) and demonising others, and magnifying an whimsically chosen insignificant episode no end and making it look like the cause of all problems in the world is the way they can find things to write! I'm not just taking potshots at the media here. They, like every other field have their inept people and Prem was probably just out of form there..

 

[full_length]

So how is the NRR thing figured out for the Eng-Zim match?
Ignore it? I suppose that's how it'll probably go..

 

[Gotchya]

Ignore it? I suppose that's how it'll probably go..

Another huge plus for them, imagine.....:rolleyes:

 

[marc71178]

So how is the NRR thing figured out for the Eng-Zim match?
Ignore it? I suppose that's how it'll probably go..

I think it's ignored.

Also I believe that matches calculated by DD and Tony are ignored.