**Official** New Zealand in Australia Thread

[Scaly piscine]

the 'stock' length most of the kiwi pace bowlers were bowling(especially oram) is actually the perfect length to bowl in new zealand pitches where it gives the ball more chance to move and get the batsman in two minds, i also know from experience because it is the exact length i try and bowl on new zealand pitches, but on your typical aussie deck you need to get it about one or two metres fuller which on a typical new zealand deck would be a good length to drive but not so in aussie so i hope the kiwi bowlers will adapt in the next test starting friday.

I don't agree with that at all, in England and New Zealand (especially when there's cloud cover or moisture) you should be bowling it reasonably full, not half-volley length but up there to have a go at, then the movement does the rest and you get catching practice. In Australia where there is very little if any lateral movement compared to NZ then the length should be a bit shorter because if you bowl a length that you can drive, even if the drive is played on the up you'll get smacked around all day.

 

[JASON]

By the way, I forgot to mention this yesterday, but did anyone notice when Gilly was batting that he chopped the ball and it got caught in his pads, pulled it out and threw it to the bowler (I think it was Chris Martin)? It was on the full, so if the fielding side had appealed, would the umpire be obliged to give it out?

I guess your query has been answered by Scallywag.

Just thought I would mention this incident of similar nature which I read about. (To me it smacks of poor sportsmanship)

Andrew Hilditch against Pakistan in Perth (29th March 1979), pitying the perspiring bowler Sarfraz Nawaz picked up the ball at his feet at the bowler's end and handed it to Sarfraz. Sarfraz displaying poor sportsmanship IMO,instead of thanking Hilditch, appealed for handled the ball and the poor Ump had no option but to give Hilditch out !!

 

[howardj]

Last time something like this happened (India, 4th Test), Gilchrist said to Kaif who'd just gloved one to him, "The whole world's watching, champ".

I don't think that constitutes telling someone to walk. I think he may have been trying to put the batsman off.

Even so, Gilchrist is making an absolute fool of himself. What on earth is the point in walking if, half an hour later as a wicket-keeper, you turn around and appeal against an opposition batsman - like Gilly did today against McCullum - who has missed the ball by at least 10cm!!!! It's a massive double standard. You are making an absolute fool of yourself, Gilly!

 

[Mr Casson]

Even so, Gilchrist is making an absolute fool of himself. What on earth is the point in walking if, half an hour later as a wicket-keeper, you turn around and appeal against an opposition batsman - like Gilly did today against McCullum - who has missed the ball by at least 10cm!!!! It's a massive double standard. You are making an absolute fool of yourself, Gilly!

He's not the only one who appealed. And he's not the one who gave it out.

And I'll bet that a hell of a lot of people thought that McCullum got some bat on that. I know I did until I saw the replay.

It was just a freakish delivery like the one Jacques Kallis got last time SA were here, when the ball just deviated massively after going past his bat. They don't happen very often, and they look fairly well out at first, in full-motion.

 

[howardj]

He's not the only one who appealed. And he's not the one who gave it out.

And I'll bet that a hell of a lot of people thought that McCullum got some bat on that. I know I did until I saw the replay.

It was just a freakish delivery like the one Jacques Kallis got last time SA were here, when the ball just deviated massively after going past his bat. They don't happen very often, and they look fairly well out at first, in full-motion.

Turn it up, mate. As if Gilchrist - standing behind the stumps - thought it was out! When someone misses something by 10cm and you dont hear an edge, and you're the wicket-keeper, I think it's a fair bet that you know it's not out.

 

[Mr Casson]

Turn it up, mate. As if Gilchrist - standing behind the stumps - thought it was out! When someone misses something by 10cm and you dont hear an edge, and you're the wicket-keeper, I think it's a fair bet that you know it's not out.

Except when there are other noises that add to the mayhem. Replays showed that the noise was McCullum hitting his pad, yes, but it certainly made a noise not dissimilar to an edge.

 

[howardj]

Except when there are other noises that add to the mayhem. Replays showed that the noise was McCullum hitting his pad, yes, but it certainly made a noise not dissimilar to an edge.

Cool man- point taken. But I don't really agree with you, that Gilchrist thought he edged it. But he sure did have the last laugh on McMillan, in this match.

 

[Mr Casson]

Cool man- point taken. But I don't really agree with you, that Gilchrist thought he edged it. But he sure did have the last laugh on McMillan, in this match.

Gilly has shown a willingness to play the game in a fair spirit e.g. walking, suggesting that cricketers take fielder's words on close catches etc... I'm curious as to what makes you think that he would appeal for something he knew was not out? Especially something which on replay was so obviously far away from the bat. Don't you think that if he just KNEW the batsman hadn't touched it, he'd pick a closer decision than that one? I think everyone was just done in by a freak ball.

In the end, the buck should stop with the umpire who makes the decision.

 

[anzac]

I can understand why the umpire gave that not out. The ball turned in sharply from off to leg -- definitely some doubt would have crept in as to whether it was going down leg side.

almost a carbon copy of the one that did for Langer - although with the Langer dismissal you could see his leg stump - both were caught on the crease however & in comparisson to some of the other decisions made I found it a bit hard to have a prior decision given & then that 1 not..........esp when hawkeye suggests it would have hit leg & the damage that partnership did.......

however bottom line the NZL team were out played by a better team & did not deserve to get any sort of breaks.............

 

[anzac]

By the way, I forgot to mention this yesterday, but did anyone notice when Gilly was batting that he chopped the ball and it got caught in his pads, pulled it out and threw it to the bowler (I think it was Chris Martin)? It was on the full, so if the fielding side had appealed, would the umpire be obliged to give it out?

Oram picked 1 up & threw it back to the bowler in the 1st innings b4 he got his ton................

 

[Mr Casson]

Oram picked 1 up & threw it back to the bowler in the 1st innings b4 he got his ton................

But that would be out for handling the ball. I was asking about him being caught.

 

[anzac]

But that would be out for handling the ball. I was asking about him being caught.

yep sorry - different rules but same blockhead type dismissal - Benaud made the comment at the time - why on earth would anyone even think of doing something like that - and then they had a field day re Nawaz & Miandad etc..........

 

[anzac]

I don't agree with that at all, in England and New Zealand (especially when there's cloud cover or moisture) you should be bowling it reasonably full, not half-volley length but up there to have a go at, then the movement does the rest and you get catching practice. In Australia where there is very little if any lateral movement compared to NZ then the length should be a bit shorter because if you bowl a length that you can drive, even if the drive is played on the up you'll get smacked around all day.

I actually believe that both theories are basically valid - depending on what you are trying to do..............

with movement you want to pitch it up to invite the batsman to drive, and look for swing / seam movement to take the edge...............

however if you are looking to force the batsman onto the back foot or to bowl into his body & cramp him for room, then you would need to bowl it back of a length (in NZL) because of the lack of bounce...............

perhaps the latter was the theory once the ball got older & no longer swung / seamed, except they bowled it back of a length for NZL conditions & not on a good length for AUS pitches...........

but it also raises the question as to why they did not try to exploit the deterioration in the pitch - those cracks work as good as if bowling on a green top even when the ball gets on a bit..........

bottom line as i said b4 it's not the first time they have failed in this regard & the bowling tactics / execution were crap...........

 

[marc71178]

Speaking of the pitch - still day 4

33.4 Gillespie to McMillan, no run, howzat? back to a ball that rears in off a CRACK, ......

A pitch with cracks on on Day 4, shock horror!

Note that this is the 4th day of the game, NOT the 4th over.

 

[anzac]

i think they will go with the 5-5 split and hamish marshall will miss out again, i think they will play the following side:

Richardson
Sinclair
Fleming
Styris
Astle
Oram
McCullum
Vettori
Franklin
Butler
Martin

altough i believe oram should be batting at 7 i think the selctors will go with this side providing frankilin is fit, but i didn't pick the last team and there is an outside chance wiseman will be picked but that would be very bold.

yep i'd say it's a pretty good bet with the options they have available........although I don't agree with the 5-5 split or the need to have the extra bowler..........

I don't think the bowling lost the match - IMO we were about 100 runs short in the 1st innings (having 6 batsmen) to start with..........sure the bowling let us down but IMO the primary issue still comes back to the batting & needing a decent target to bowl with...........

 

[anzac]

A pitch with cracks on on Day 4, shock horror!

Note that this is the 4th day of the game, NOT the 4th over.

I know it sounds a bit like sour grapes but IMO there were too many cracks having an impact too early in the day..............not that the NZL bowlers had any idea where they were or what they could do................

I can live with it if the cracks start to impact in the last session on Day 4, and if the bounce becomes uneven to go with it on Day 5 (not saying the bounce had much to do with it today)...........as I said for me they were a bit too wide a bit early................

not looking for excuses - just personal preference re pitch behaviour...........

 

[marc71178]

Martin (so much for Andre's theroy that he would be cannon fodder)

So he didn't go at 4 an over then?

 

[marc71178]

It costs you the equivalent of about $75 at Lords.......the Uk would be more expensive in general I'd imagine. I wasn't sitting in a special section or anything.

I paid £25 for seats behind the arm at Old Trafford this summer (every test I've been to is in just about the same seats and cost that, with about £35 for the same seats for an ODI)

Next summer it will be about £45-50 for the same seats.

No thank you.

 

[marc71178]

Well i guess Australians are unstopable, when India wasn't able to sstop them on their own backyard, then noone elsse can be expected to do much either againsst the Aussies!

Erm, that would only hold credence if India were the second best side in the world, which they're most definitely not.

 

[Jono]

Yes, they are not. But India are (or were?) deemed to be almost unbeatable at home. And Australia did it with relative ease. It's a valid point, which need not be rebutted just for the sake of quoting and rebutting someone.