vic_orthdox
Global Moderator
Heh.
I think it's just easier to blame Harrison Barnes for everything. Take the offer
I think it's just easier to blame Harrison Barnes for everything. Take the offer
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***Official NBA Thread***
- Thread starter Mister Wright
- Start date
Anil
Hall of Fame Member
they aren't a 16-0 playoff team yet but yeah team is the operative word here...and it is such a pleasure to watch them in action!
OverratedSanity
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Haha yeah amazing
You can argue what KD did was 'worse' but to say it was "morally" wrong while also saying you're a huge Lebron fan seems highly hypocritical. I for one hope they sweep the Cavs now tbh. Not because I want to see an uncompetitive series, but because I truly believe they deserve that 16-0. Incredible team.
Anil
Hall of Fame Member
yeah a fan of lebron james calling durant immoral...that's just hilarious! the guy bolted to miami to form a super team and then when they were whupped by a great team that was the sheer embodiment of team basketball, bolted back to cleveland to form another super team...it is ironic that they are now down in the hole against a team that looks like those 2014 spurs on steroids...
for the record, i don't think either decisions were immoral in the least...they were practical, pragmatic decisions made by great players who more than deserve rings in their careers...
for the record, i don't think either decisions were immoral in the least...they were practical, pragmatic decisions made by great players who more than deserve rings in their careers...
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
It isn't even on the same planet.
LeBron spent half his career with scrubs until he moved, which itself was a response to Boston's big 3. And Miami were nowhere close to being competitors nor were the players in their prime. Wade after 2011 was done and Bosh never even got going.
Every player moves to improve their chances but if LeBron was to do what KD did he would have had to join Boston or the Spurs. GSW without Durant is already an all-time great team, won titles, 2 time MVP (one unanimous), DPOY, multiple all stars and 6th man of the year.
Durant at OKC is a title challenging team, Lebron didnt have that unless he was carrying scrubs like Mo Williams to the finals. Durant's team OKC was up 3-1 themselves against GSW last season. Heck they made the playoffs without him. Love and Irving are perennial losers without Lebron and even this year the Cavs couldn't win a single game if Lebron didnt feature. You don't even have to talk about what happened to both Cavs and Miami before, during and after he left because we know his impact on making almost any team compete.
That's why morally for me it defeats the purpose of competing when you look at what KD did. It would be like Lebron going to GSW for the minimum. Sport is a spectacle because we love the competition and narrative otherwise it's just people on a court or pitch. They have effectively killed the competition. They are 31-1 in their last 32 games and that is because Kerr rested his stars in the game they lost.
LeBron never joined a team that took out the competition in that manner. Not even close. KD could have joined a few teams besides GSW and still would have had an awesome chance to win. Ultimately I don't think history is going to be kind on him but I think it doesn't matter to him which is fair enough.
But don't even kid yourself about it being the same. Can you imagine of Cristiano Ronaldo moved to Barca?
If KD moved to say, the Clippers, it would be more similar to what Lebron did.
LeBron spent half his career with scrubs until he moved, which itself was a response to Boston's big 3. And Miami were nowhere close to being competitors nor were the players in their prime. Wade after 2011 was done and Bosh never even got going.
Every player moves to improve their chances but if LeBron was to do what KD did he would have had to join Boston or the Spurs. GSW without Durant is already an all-time great team, won titles, 2 time MVP (one unanimous), DPOY, multiple all stars and 6th man of the year.
Durant at OKC is a title challenging team, Lebron didnt have that unless he was carrying scrubs like Mo Williams to the finals. Durant's team OKC was up 3-1 themselves against GSW last season. Heck they made the playoffs without him. Love and Irving are perennial losers without Lebron and even this year the Cavs couldn't win a single game if Lebron didnt feature. You don't even have to talk about what happened to both Cavs and Miami before, during and after he left because we know his impact on making almost any team compete.
That's why morally for me it defeats the purpose of competing when you look at what KD did. It would be like Lebron going to GSW for the minimum. Sport is a spectacle because we love the competition and narrative otherwise it's just people on a court or pitch. They have effectively killed the competition. They are 31-1 in their last 32 games and that is because Kerr rested his stars in the game they lost.
LeBron never joined a team that took out the competition in that manner. Not even close. KD could have joined a few teams besides GSW and still would have had an awesome chance to win. Ultimately I don't think history is going to be kind on him but I think it doesn't matter to him which is fair enough.
But don't even kid yourself about it being the same. Can you imagine of Cristiano Ronaldo moved to Barca?
If KD moved to say, the Clippers, it would be more similar to what Lebron did.
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OverratedSanity
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You can argue that they were past their absolute prime but this is pretty blatantly wrong.
Anil
Hall of Fame Member
yeah but there is so much else that is wrong with that post anyway...he is saying that lebron took just enough help to win rings which is fine and dandy and "moral" but durant looked for "too much help" in 1. navigating the golden state hurdle and 2. crossing the "lebron hurdle"...somehow that is downright immoral and history will dub him a traitor and a coward and any rings he win will be tainted forever...
it is pretty clear to people who understand the game that as great as he is, durant is not at lebron's level, at least not right now...both actions are completely comparable...each player did the best they could to maximize their chances of winning a ring...durant was killing two birds with one stone...and it was not a one-sided deal as well, the warriors needed him almost as much to be confident they can cross the "lebron hurdle"...his job is to fulfil his potential and maximize his career achievements, not to "improve competition" in the league...calling that immoral is nonsensical and hyperbolic...
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Anil
Hall of Fame Member
lebron rumored to be contemplating leaving the cavs again in free agency...? interesting if there is any truth to this, does this story has any legs?
andruid
Cricketer Of The Year
Withdrawal of individual Max salary within the cap would make more of an impact I think.
dontcloseyoureyes
BARNES OUT
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
Not really, it's more or less accepted. People forget that for some of those playoffs LeBron didn't have one or the other through injuries. Even at Cleveland his first season he barely had either of Love or Irving in the playoffs.
Wade was Wade for 2011 and most of 2012, but beyond he was a shell of himself. Bosh wasn't ever as impactful as he was for Toronto, although his role changed and basketball itself had become more about the 3-point.
Without LeBron, that Miami team doesn't go to a finals. Without KD GSW had already won a ring and broke the RS record. When KD was out this year, GSW won 15 games in a row - that has never been a luxury for LeBron. Even this Cleveland team was 0-8 in the season when LeBron was out.
You don't get it. LeBron + scrubs = NBA finals. That's how strong he is. Literally any team he goes on will become a title challenger. Would you rather he went to OKC or the Spurs? Even in Miami it came with a tonne of concessions which basically meant they had no bench. This GSW is a champion team without KD. They knew full well they were putting the cheatcode in when they brought KD.
This isn't even about where KD sits with LeBron - even at 32 LeBron is clearly better than KD. WTF is the LeBron hurdle?
They are the GOAT team and were a candidate for it even before KD. They were 3-1 ahead in last year's finals and if you have that series 10 times they win it 9. You are looking at this from his perspective, and if I did I would agree with you. I am looking at my perspective as a fan of the game. They killed the competition and they knew they were doing it. Don't pretend it's the same, it's not. Otherwise we can rationalise all player moves as the same.
dontcloseyoureyes
BARNES OUT
"killed the game" is a bit rich. They've broken the competitive balance in the league for a few years, maybe a few more but they've got cap issues coming. It's not like this situation is ever going to come up again, there will never be a cap spike like that again and there won't be a team with 3 legit superstars on ridiculous value contracts. It's a freak situation and while it may hurt the competition for a few years it hasn't hurt the game as a whole, especially in the ratings and attendance departments.
In terms of the game itself, they've arguably pushed it forward. They are an amazing team to watch in every facet of the game. They will make defenses better by having to guard them, they'll make offenses better by having to try and keep up with them.
The latest Lowe Post podcast with Howard Beck summed up the situation pretty well. It's in the second half of the podcast if you're interested in a listen.
In terms of the game itself, they've arguably pushed it forward. They are an amazing team to watch in every facet of the game. They will make defenses better by having to guard them, they'll make offenses better by having to try and keep up with them.
The latest Lowe Post podcast with Howard Beck summed up the situation pretty well. It's in the second half of the podcast if you're interested in a listen.
Pratters
Cricket, Lovely Cricket
You are such a Nostradamus. Let's focus on the game rather than predict all the time. FFS. Spoils the fun. Mr. Know it all.
OverratedSanity
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This is such a stupid quarter