trundler
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England were NOT 2nd favourites going in at all.
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***Official***Match #29 - India vs England- October 29th - Lucknow (D/N)
- Thread starter Shri
- Start date
Red_Ink_Squid
Cricketer Of The Year
I think with the bookies they literally were.
Molehill
International Captain
They'd literally just given NZ a hiding which included Stokes smashing 180. They should've won the 2016 T20 on these pitches in 2016. They'd reached the semis on similar pitches in 2021. The bowling I can give you, but the batting capitulation is something no one predicted.
Yep, they really were.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Eh, I didn't see a single instance of us being lower
trundler
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Well I had my reservations.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
You never see a bookie riding a bike though.Well I had my reservations.
Obviously your reservations were largely correct btw, I think it's perhaps a semantics piece.
Worth noting though that lots of the best voices out there like Jarrod Kimber, Adam Collins, Geoff Lemon etc expected semis as bare minimum for England - although all did note the points on bowling etc.
centurymaker
Cricketer Of The Year
England absolutely not suited to slow two-paced Indian conditions where you can't always hit through the line.
Add in that some of the ageing stars are now ordinary in this format and most players are literally out of form and low on confidence since initial defeats... plus lack of preparation, it sums up England's downfall.
Had England batted first in Mumbai, they'd have done a much better job in that match. they have made dumb decisions on top of everything. So it shouldn't be surprising that they are fighting for top 8. Once you are in a rut, it's hard to come out of it. India 0-8 in 2011/12 prime example.
Pup Clarke
Cricketer Of The Year
What the bookies say is meaningless. It doesn't matter who they say are favourites etc. Tune them out
If for example, say an Australian Select XI featuring Hayden, Langer, Ponting, Waugh, Hussey and Martyn were playing a random 1st Grade team - they'd probably be favourites. Irrespective of the fact all of these players have retired and haven't played professional sport in a decade, I'm willing to bet they'd be favourites due to their pedigree and reputation as ex-professionals and elite test match batsman
If for example, say an Australian Select XI featuring Hayden, Langer, Ponting, Waugh, Hussey and Martyn were playing a random 1st Grade team - they'd probably be favourites. Irrespective of the fact all of these players have retired and haven't played professional sport in a decade, I'm willing to bet they'd be favourites due to their pedigree and reputation as ex-professionals and elite test match batsman
centurymaker
Cricketer Of The Year
I had England 3rd behind India and Australia, based on HISTORY and not actual data. They were 5th in ODI rankings.
But then South Africa emerged and beat Australia at home. And NZ unleashed Rachin.. He single-handedly made a massive difference in bringing NZ on par with India and Aus.
Players from Aus, SA and NZ play in the IPL so much that it's their second home. So it's hardly surprising they have been the best sides.
In hindsight we overestimated England and they were probably 4th-5th best side coming into the world cup.
Btw Booking odds are driven by betting. If English people were betting big on England, then they would have had shorter odds than they deserved.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Amazing that it makes money as an industry then huh
Molehill
International Captain
That may well be about right, but even that doesn't explain the collapse to the Sri Lankan seamers on a flat deck.....and it wasn't even their decent seamer!!
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
As @GIMH says, you can become very rich very quickly if you can consistently show the bookies are wrong..
Pup Clarke
Cricketer Of The Year
Okay...
What I mean is in the context of the game. Whether England are 2nd, 5th or 3rd favourites is irrelevant as to how they'll actually perform.
My main point is that we shouldn't use this information to gauge how a team will perform
What I mean is in the context of the game. Whether England are 2nd, 5th or 3rd favourites is irrelevant as to how they'll actually perform.
My main point is that we shouldn't use this information to gauge how a team will perform
ankitj
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah fair enough. Batting in Indian conditions is different though. No one expected England to be bottom of the table so I acknowledge this is hindsight commentary to a large extent, but in that respect it's no worse than lack-of-confidence narrative. I can buy it in some other scenarios but England's success across formats has been built on huge self belief. It can't be that they lost all of it as soon as this tournament started.
Adorable Asshole
International Regular
Victor Ian
International Coach
maybe Stokes coming back after retiring has caused tensions within the team.
Adorable Asshole
International Regular
Stokes stoked division in the team would make for a good headline.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Buttler probably should have declared tbh in the first 35 overs.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
He just wants to be the white ball coach so that the Baz-Eoin take over is complete. As planned in that series in 2015, I am sure.MorganView attachment 37896
