• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

***Official** Malaysia Tri-Series

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
FaaipDeOiad said:
The following is the likely team for the final, I think. Hayden hasn't impressed me overly. He was pretty good today, all things considered, but I don't see why a slow 49 in which he ran Katich out in the first game should win him a spot ahead of a guy who people are suggesting should be dropped because he doesn't score fast enough. Martyn's ODI career is gone, so that's a no brainer. The only other contentious issue is Bracken vs Clark, but I think Bracken will win the spot.

Also a chance that Haddin will move up to open, or slot in at 4.

Katich
Watson
Ponting
Clarke
Symonds
Hussey
Haddin
Hogg
Lee
Bracken
McGrath
If u look at the way Oz has approached this tourney, it's definitely seen as a warm-up.

Unfortunately, some players are still not in the form they'd like and/or havent done enough to seal spots for Champions Trophy.

Should they be consistent with their thinking, Hayden, Katich, Martyn, Symonds and Clark all need to play in the final to get more game time.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
India have a lot of work to do if they are going to challenge for the World Cup if you ask me.
 

adharcric

International Coach
Positives and Negatives for India

Positives
- Sachin came back with a bang and looks in fine touch with the bat
- We realized at a good time that Dravid is not suited for the opener's role
- Mongia made a solid comeback and looked good with bat and ball, thus making us less reliant on Irfan Pathan's all-round presence
- The fielding was sharp on the whole with Raina proving his world-class athleticism in the off-side cordon
- Munaf showed that he can be trusted for an economical spell and a wicket or two, while Sreesanth came back strong in his only opportunity and bowled with fire; RP Singh was less wayward as well
- Harbhajan bowled like a champion right throughout the tournament and showed his resilience with the bat as well; had he not been given out incorrectly, we may have been denied the "choker" tag this time
- Our top-order got exposed early enough so we can address it ahead of the World Cup

Negatives
- Sehwag got screwed in the runs department, got a couple of stinkers that kept low, got into an unfortunate run-out, got a beauty from Lee and generally failed to capitalize
- The stars of last season's champion one-day team: Yuvraj, Pathan and Dhoni ... all failed
- The former "all-rounder" Agarkar proved that he is absolutely worthless when we need him with the bat
- Generally speaking, most of our lineup displayed an atrocious lack of common sense while in the middle
- Instead of giving Sreesanth more playing time, the management just spoonfed RP Singh once again
- While Kaif and Raina both looked good for cameos, they threw away the starts at crucial junctures
- We didn't get enough playing time with the rain screwing us again
- We got owned, relatively speaking
 

age_master

Hall of Fame Member
aussie said:
Not saying big Matt should play ahead of Katich but i'd say he has done pretty well in his two games. His 49 vs the windies was slow but his innings today other than Mongia's was the most i'd say if he wasn't stupidly run out by Martyn could have scored a big one today.

But all in all the battle Hayden/Katich/Jaques is going to go all the way down to the chappell-hadlee series i'd say.
Hayden has outdone Katich by a long way in that series. Will be interesting to see who they pick next series
 

adharcric

International Coach
Plain and simple, I don't see Katich as a genuine match-winner. Hayden, on the other hand, definitely fits that definition.
 

Nate

You'll Never Walk Alone
social said:
If u look at the way Oz has approached this tourney, it's definitely seen as a warm-up.

Unfortunately, some players are still not in the form they'd like and/or havent done enough to seal spots for Champions Trophy.

Should they be consistent with their thinking, Hayden, Katich, Martyn, Symonds and Clark all need to play in the final to get more game time.
Difference being, this is a final. I`m pretty sure Australia would like to win.
 

Nate

You'll Never Walk Alone
And Fuller, yes Hayden ran Katich out, but Martyn ran Hayden out. Who says Hayden wouldn`t have made a 100?
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Nnanden said:
And Fuller, yes Hayden ran Katich out, but Martyn ran Hayden out. Who says Hayden wouldn`t have made a 100?
Not me, I'm just saying that you can't really criticise Katich for his performance in the second match, while the same criticisms that everyone levels at Katich even when he makes a big score can indeed be aimed at Hayden. In other words, he scored slowly, failed to rotate the strike and got another batsman out.

I think they'll stick with Katich for the moment for the same reason they've stuck with him for the last few months, which is that he's making runs pretty consistently and his competition isn't exactly setting the world alight. Hayden's innings yesterday may get him the spot though. I guess we'll see.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
social said:
Wasnt the point I was making.

Oz chose a team and tactics with something other than this game in mind and should really have paid for it.
Which you realized only after they lost some quick wickets, didn't you ?
 

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
adharcric said:
Negatives
- We got owned, relatively speaking
that really outweighs all the positives, don't you think?

the batting lineup is looking really dodgy as the world cup draws near, the bowling lineup is anything but settled and performing....pathan, a confident one day performer a season back is pathetic right now.....
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
silentstriker said:
So if its not close and its not out and the fielders know it

vs.

Its close and its not out and the fielders know it


The morality of the two situations is somehow different?
weren't you complaining about Lara's actions some time back? Is it okay for the captain to be livid when the opposition's best player is given out wrongly and then called back (which is the right decision) and yet is it not okay when a captain is livid when the word of one of his fielders is not being accepted even though there is no real evidence to the contrary?
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Matt79 said:
If we're thinking of the same incident, in my recollection, it was at a famous bar in Kings Cross, he was extremely drunk, certainly wasn't with his girlfriend, and was seeking to be with someone who, if he was sober he would probably not have been interested in.

I hasten to add, this was years ago, he's appeared to grow up a lot since then.
yeah, he has. He is now wise enough to pick up fights with gentlemen who are above middle age, wear white hats and stand behind the bowling stumps during cricket games, instead of taking on young men in bars. :p


Obviously, a wise choice because he hasn't had a black eye since. ;)
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
My thoughts on India's performance in this series:


1. Too much experimentation by Greg Chappell. Imran Khan hit the nail on the head during INdia's tour of Pak in the third ODI or second ODI, I think. Pathan came in at 3 when the ball was swinging around and India had just lost Sehwag. He put the question "Is he your regular no.3 now? ". Greg Chappell and Dravid certainly thought so and over a whole season, with the aid of flat tracks and good batting performances by others, it kept looking like a success, even though a few here at CW (including myself) were criticising it all the time. It is one thing to send in Pathan as a pinch hitter in the odd game when quick runs are needed, quite another to play him at 3 every game. Thankfully, the windies tour and this series have helped realize that he is WAY out of his league at that position. Is he really our answer to Ponting, Sarwan, Jayawardene, Younis Khan, Fleming etc.? And thankfully, the experiment with Dravid at the top failed now than at the CT or at the WC. It is time for us to write down a settled side with players for each position and only deviate from it depending on the match situation. Pathan coming at 3 in every game is not exactly a surprise, was it? It would have been a surprise had it only happened once in a while.



2. Sehwag, DRavid, Yuvraj, Kaif and Raina all collectively failed in this series. That is our whole batting line up except Sachin. Sehwag has always had issues in ODIs especially on tracks that did a bit. I am planning to start a seperate thread about him where we can discuss this issue further. Yuvraj looked like he has been out of match practice. Having had a bout of viral fever during the camp, he should have been eased back into the side. It looked as though he was rushed back instead and it showed. It might have been a better idea to have left him out of this squad and got him back in through the Challenger Trophy. The guy is still class and I expect him to come up with good knocks in the Champions Trophy. Kaif and Raina are basically not carrying on with their good work. If they continue like this, they may need to be dropped. I think we have had enough of guys who score the good 20s and 30s. And the thing with Kaif is he should bat at 3 if he is in the side or otherwise, we might as well drop him. He is certainly not the best option at 5,6 or 7 for us right now.


3. Dinesh Mongia made a good comeback. I have been one of the few here who has always been advocating a comeback for him and it was wonderful to see him do well against a very good bowling line up. Hopefully, he can make this comeback count unlike the last time. He can a steadying presence for us at 5.


4. Harbhajan is back to his best with the ball. IT was a pleasure to see him defeat batsman after batsman through flight and length. The fact that he is getting a lot more caught and bowled and stumped dismissals (the classical off spinner's dismissals over the years) shows how good he is at the moment. He probably is up there among the top 3 spinners in ODIs right now and that is a HUGE advantage for us right now.


5. The pace attack did okay. Munaf shows good control even though I really think he is a little too young in international cricket to be talking about giving up pace etc... McGrath certainly used to bowl a lot quicker than Munaf at his age while still hitting the same lines and lengths. Agarkar is still a little blow hot and blow cold with the ball but at least now we need not have any pre-conceived notions of him bailing us out with the bat. He is officially a tailender now even though he has been one since the day he came in. RP Singh is a waste in the national side, AFAIC. He bowls with an economy of 4.5 to 5 in good bowling tracks and it shoots up to above 6 on batting tracks. He can't bat and he can't field. Sreesanth is a better option any day of the week. Even if he goes for more runs, he is atleast more likely to get a batsman out. RP Singh is a one trick pony and if he is gonna be in our side every game in the CT, we might as well kiss our slender chances good bye.



6. Lastly, Dhoni... The man has appeared in more ads than the runs he has scored in international cricket in the last season. Honestly, I don't mind how many ads a guy comes in but when the guy keeps failing and you have to see him in every commercial break, it gets on your nerves. His keeping is still suspect and he probably cost us the first game against the Windies by failing to stump Brian Lara. His batting again, is a bit of a one trick thing. He can hit it well and clean and long if it is in his slot but apart from that he really does struggle to get going. He is still a valuable one day player once he gets his act right because of the power he brings to the lower middle order. But I think he should be left out of the test side now, he really isn't our best option in that form of the game.


Ideally, I think this is our best XI at the moment for ODIs:


Sachin
Sehwag
Kaif/Yuvraj
Dravid
Mongia/Yuvraj/Raina
Mongia/Raina
Dhoni
Harbhajan
Agarkar
Sreesanth
Patel
 
Last edited:

adharcric

International Coach
On the experimentation ...
Completely agree. The Pathan experiment stopped being an experiment soon after it began. If it was truly about flexibility and surprise tactics, Dhoni should've been sent up the order more often and Pathan should've been given chances to play the steadying role in the middle overs once in a while. Right now, we should thank Mongia for making a return, because now we're not desperate to include an out-of-form Pathan just because he's the only fifth bowler who can bat.

On the batting failures ...
Sehwag's consistency has always been an issue but he will remain in the side regardless of whether he fixes it or not. One area where he has been consistent throughout his career is his average, which has hovered around 32 forever now. Quite pathetic for an established top-order batsman who doesn't have trouble scoring quickly and has a 50+ test average. Yuvraj didn't seem to be in cricket mode at any point in this series and it was evident not only in his batting but also in his fielding. The fact that he "fell ill" less than a week after "recovering" might mean that he never really recovered in the first place. Yuvi is the key to our one-day success simply because he's consistent and his one-day batsmanship ranks up there with the best in the world. He has the perfect blend of strokeplay and rotation of the strike. We desperately need him back in full flow. Kaif looked good before getting out yesterday, but he really doesn't have a role in this team, especially with the arrival of Raina and now Mongia. Raina also needs to start making it count, but this kid is damn talented and hard-working so I'm not too worried. He should come up big any day now.

On Mongia's comeback ...
He looked very good yesterday and played a superb innings with the only flaw being the way he managed the tail-enders. His bowling looks decent as well and he should be the regular #5 with Raina, Dhoni and four bowlers to follow.

On Harbhajan's excellence ...
Yes, Bhajji was magnificent here and he does give us a huge advantage in the middle-overs. When he has Powar with him, it gets even better. That's why Pathan being in the side helps so much, it allows us to field two specialist spinners regularly.

On the pace attack ...
I really don't mind Munaf sacrificing the pace in one-day cricket because the economy rate is really important here. In test cricket, obviously he shouldn't be doing that. Agarkar has developed into a mature bowler and he's pretty economical these days as well as a wicket-taking threat. Sreesanth, IMO, is the best of our seamers and it's tragic that he's being left out. RP Singh has talent and will probably turn into a good bowler, but there's no way Sreesanth shouldn't be in the Indian side.

On Dhoni ...
You can see what he's trying to do ... get on top of the opposition and dominate them. But you can't do that all the time and if you try it against strong opposition you'll pay sometimes. Dhoni CAN control his aggressive instinct because he's done it in the past, but he really needs to learn his lesson soon because we depend on him big time. As for being dropped from tests, I think you have to give him the tour of SA and then make your pick between Dhoni and Karthik.
 

adharcric

International Coach
honestbharani said:
Sachin
Sehwag
Kaif/Yuvraj
Dravid
Mongia/Yuvraj/Raina
Mongia/Raina
Dhoni
Harbhajan
Agarkar
Sreesanth
Patel
Wow, we have almost the exact same views on Indian cricket. :)
Why wouldn't you have Dravid coming in at #3 btw?
Sehwag, Sachin, Dravid, Yuvraj, Mongia, Raina, Dhoni, Agarkar, Harbhajan, Sreesanth, Patel

I guess you could switch Yuvi and Dravid to eliminate that three-lefty thing in the middle.
Basically, I think AA is still good enough to make one random cameo every 10 matches, so it's better that we keep him at #8 and deceive the opposition a little.
 

Slow Love™

International Captain
Sanz said:
It sure gets more noticed now because :-

a. Now he is a premier batsman in the world
b. Captain of the best team in the world
c. No one is there to control him in his fits of anger

IMO he was equally bad but he didn't have enough say in matters, so he looked okay on cricket fields, when he was on his own (i.e. off the field), his behaviour is well known.
Well, it probably serves me right for trying to defend Ponting (8-)), but I don't think this contradicts my argument. It's not as if the only poorly behaved cricketers out there who get noticed are captains of the best team in the world. We can hypothesize till we're blue in the face about Ponting's general character, but empirically, I believe it's true that captaincy brought out his worst behaviour, and before he was appointed, I don't think anybody saw his on-field conduct as a particular problem - certainly many people critical of the way the Aussie team conducted itself saw his appointment as a strong move in improving these standards.
 

Top