****OFFICIAL**** Lara vs Tendulkar Debate Thread

[Adorable Asshole]

I just thought I'd continue the Sobers v Imran discussion ...

Yeah while Sobers was a great fielder Imran as a captain was no less.

 

[subshakerz]

I think Lara also deserves credit for having a similar record to Sachin despite playing piss poor attacks far less and having far fewer not outs......

Lara never played Steyn, Shoaib and his own attack either like Tendulkar did.

 

[anil1405]

That was exactly Lara's problem during his slump. He would get out early playing loose shots and wafts without the grit to stick in.

That's the mark of attacking players. They don't hesitate to play attacking strokes even if it means they get out playing loose shots more often than others.

Had Lara decided to play like Tendulkar, he might have ended up being a lower standard batter than he was.

 

[subshakerz]

The more you go through their records, the clearer it gets that Tendulkar shines ahead of Lara on this front.

Lara's entire career was peak, slump then peak again.

If you take that respective 'peak, slump, peak' portion from Tendulkar's career of 93 to 2011 you end up with a period of 157 tests over 18 years where he averages nearly 60 and over 45 in every country. So at this point, Tendulkar is in another class as a batsman over Lara over a longer period than Lara's entire career.

Thee only thing that brings Tendulkar closer to Lara is his early career phase and late career dip. Even though he averages less in his teen years, I still give him credit for being a prodigy and doing what no other batsman in history has done that early on.

His late career dip should take points from him but it is around 10% of his overall career.

Bottomline, Tendulkar's prime years as a bat show him far ahead of Lara. So you can decide how you want to weigh the tailends of his career to see if he evens up or goes below Lara. I think to me he clearly is a notch ahead as far as record goes.

 

[subshakerz]

That's the mark of attacking players. They don't hesitate to play attacking strokes even if it means they get out playing loose shots more often than others.

Had Lara decided to play like Tendulkar, he might have ended up being a lower standard batter than he was.

Point is that Lara suffered because of that approach and changed it from 2001 onwards.

 

[Slifer]

Lara never played Steyn, Shoaib and his own attack either like Tendulkar did.

Subz I'm not doing this with you. Almost everytime I've said something about Lara you come up with some caveat. Sachin played Ambrose in one series, the majority of the times he played the likes of the mighty Pedro Collins and incomparable Nixon McClean. And how is Lara supposed to play Steyn if he's retired?

Next I'll say Lara deserves credit for overcoming his ownage by McGrath, then you'll for the millionth time repeat that McGrath owned him bla bla bla. Is it that hard got you to see Lara get his flowers and just let it go?

And this is coming from someone(me) who was there from the very start of this post way back in 2006 and even then I said Sachin was better overall. You actually switched sides and used some of the very same arguments I've used. Anyway, what I said in response to Anils post still stands. If you wanna post facts to the contrary have at it.....

 

[anil1405]

Point is that Lara suffered because of that approach and changed it from 2001 onwards.

Suffered in your opinion, not others.

Coming to think of it, Lara played at more deliveries and hence played more loose shots (in your book), just as you find it compulsive to be aggressive with you opinions and react to every post that supports Lara.

Either both you and Lara are correct or both of you are wrong. You decide.

 

[subshakerz]

Subz I'm not doing this with you. Almost everytime I've said about Lara you come up with some caveat. Sachin. Played Ambrose in one series, the majority of the times he played the mighty Pedro Collins and incomparable Nixon McClean. And how is Lara supposed to play Steyn if he's retired?

Next I'll say Lara deserves credit for overcoming his ownage by McGrath, then you'll for the millionth time repeat that McGrath owned him bla bla bla. Is it that hard got you to see Lara get his flowers and just let it go?

And this is coming from someone(me) who was there from the very start of this post way back in 2006 and even then I said Sachin was better overall. You actually switched sides and used some of the very same arguments I've used. Anyway, what I said in response to Anils post still stands. If you wanna post facts to the contrary have at it.....

My friend, I am just countering the point that Tendulkar played more crap attacks, he also played more quality ones.

Again, I am trying to contribute to a balanced conversation on Lara and remind people his career wasn't all roses. If his supporters were more willing to acknowledge his fallibilities and that he was capable of looking as ordinary as he was awesome at times, I wouldn't need to raise these points.

 

[subshakerz]

Suffered in your opinion, not others.

Coming to think of it, Lara played at more deliveries and hence played more loose shots (in your book), just as you find it compulsive to be aggressive with you opinions and react to every post that supports Lara.

Either both you and Lara are correct or both of you are wrong. You decide.

The record doesn't lie and there are many commentaries on Lara's unseriousness around that mid-late nineties time.

Donald slams 'unprofessional' Lara

The World Cup is still nine days away but the mind games and verbal jousting have begun in earnest, with South Africa's champion speedster Allan Donald aiming his first bouncer at the West Indies captain Brian Lara.

www.theguardian.com

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Journalists used to use slam in the headlines even in 1999!!! Lol

 

[anil1405]

The record doesn't lie and there are many commentaries on Lara's unseriousness around that mid-late nineties time.

Donald slams 'unprofessional' Lara

The World Cup is still nine days away but the mind games and verbal jousting have begun in earnest, with South Africa's champion speedster Allan Donald aiming his first bouncer at the West Indies captain Brian Lara.

www.theguardian.com

There are a long list of posters here to give the similar opinion about you. You are ultra aggresive in pushing your perspective on others while failing to understand where others are coming from.

My friend, I am just countering the point that Tendulkar played more crap attacks, he also played more quality ones.

Again, I am trying to contribute to a balanced conversation on Lara and remind people his career wasn't all roses. If his supporters were more willing to acknowledge his fallibilities and that he was capable of looking as ordinary as he was awesome at times, I wouldn't need to raise these points.

In the process of pushing your views aggressively, you are either forgetting or misunderstanding few things. Lara had his flaws and most fans understand that.

The one point people are also trying to make is that when someone is as aggressive is Lara, more failures are also inevitable. But there are also more highs.

It comes down to people's personal opinions, if they want to value aggressive cricket and succeeding like Lara or being a gear below Lara yet more consistent like Sachin was.

For all the discussions going on here I rate Sachin slightly ahead of Lara but the way you try to bring down Lara doesn't need so much aggression.

 

[subshakerz]

There are a long list of posters here to give the similar opinion about you. You are ultra aggresive in pushing your perspective on others while failing to understand where others are coming from.

I think you are confusing assertiveness for aggression. I tend not to attack or demean other posters.

In the process of pushing your views aggressively, you are either forgetting or misunderstanding few things. Lara had his flaws and most fans understand that.

The one point people are also trying to make is that when someone is as aggressive is Lara, more failures are also inevitable. But there are also more highs.

It comes down to people's personal opinions, if they want to value aggressive cricket and succeeding like Lara or being a gear below Lara yet more consistent like Sachin was.

For all the discussions going on here I rate Sachin slightly ahead of Lara but the way you try to bring down Lara doesn't need so much aggression.

I tend not to see Lara supporters agree or mention that he could look quite ordinary at times or had a poor attitude. Hence why I am raising these points. I acknowledge Tendulkar's weaknesses, such as a lack of dominant series to boast of.

But at least you agree Tendulkar was better. I am trying to convince others that Lara was more fallible overall.

 

[Slifer]

My friend, I am just countering the point that Tendulkar played more crap attacks, he also played more quality ones.

Again, I am trying to contribute to a balanced conversation on Lara and remind people his career wasn't all roses. If his supporters were more willing to acknowledge his fallibilities and that he was capable of looking as ordinary as he was awesome at times, I wouldn't need to raise these points.

No you're not. For whatever reason you look for whateevr reason to drag the man down. I'll give you a few examples and then that'll be the last for now. In the spin debate, some of us mentioned Lara’s 2001 demolition job of Murali in SL but instead of just giving the man credit, you implied that it wasn't anything special since others have done the same. When we mention Lara vs Mcwarne in 99, oh it's Warne just got back from surgery and he wasn't 100%. I said Lara averaged more in Pakistan than SRT you go oh well it's because he played a poor Pakistan team. Ok Lara averaged more in SL : "Lara could have had a poor series against Murali earlier in his career and his record may not be as stellar." Seriously? I could say Lara is arguably the best left handed batsman of all time, and you'd probably respond with: "well if Sachin was left handed he'd likely be better than Lara. I'm being facetious but that's how you've posted imo. That's not balanced.....

 

[Slifer]

I think you are confusing assertiveness for aggression. I tend not to attack or demean other posters.


I tend not to see Lara supporters agree or mention that he could look quite ordinary at times or had a poor attitude. Hence why I am raising these points. I acknowledge Tendulkar's weaknesses, such as a lack of dominant series to boast of.

But at least you agree Tendulkar was better. I am trying to convince others that Lara was more fallible overall.

No you're not. Because the two known West Indians on here myself and Kyear readily acknowledge Sachin to be slightly better because he was more consistent and better away. But anytime anyone mentions any area Lara maybe slightly ahead here you come with your caveats.....

 

[subshakerz]

No you're not. Because the two known West Indians on here myself and Kyear readily acknowledge Sachin to be slightly better because he was more consistent and better away. But anytime anyone mentions any area Lara maybe slightly ahead here you come with your caveats.....

Lara is ahead in dominant series, top knocks and ability against spin. Have also acknowledged this several times.

Definitely better to watch too, the most stylish bat ever and I have said his 277 is the most aesthetic innings I have seen.

The core issue we are having is that you don't want to admit that Lara in his mid career performed and looked ordinary to the extent where his ATG status was questionable. He are stuck in 'even stevens' mode.

 

[subshakerz]

No you're not. For whatever reason you look for whateevr reason to drag the man down. I'll give you a few examples and then that'll be the last for now. In the spin debate, some of us mentioned Lara’s 2001 demolition job of Murali in SL but instead of just giving the man credit, you implied that it wasn't anything special since others have done the same. When we mention Lara vs Mcwarne in 99, oh it's Warne just got back from surgery and he wasn't 100%. I said Lara averaged more in Pakistan than SRT you go oh well it's because he played a poor Pakistan team. Ok Lara averaged more in SL : "Lara could have had a poor series against Murali earlier in his career and his record may not be as stellar." Seriously? I could say Lara is arguably the best left handed batsman of all time, and you'd probably respond with: "well if Sachin was left handed he'd likely be better than Lara. I'm being facetious but that's how you've posted imo. That's not balanced.....

I guess you don't like nuance then or even mild mythbusting.

2001 Lara-Murali, I brought up his 2002 performance as a follow-up to show how special Lara's dominance of Murali was home and away.

99, Warne coming back from surgery quick and bowling pies is pretty much well established, even his own captain admitted that's why he dropped him from the last test. If you are using that as an example of spin mastery, it is problematic.

You are trying to declare Lara better in SL and Pakistan based on three series played there overall compared to seven for Tendulkar, hence my rejoinders.

None of the above takes away from Lara's awesome achievements though.

 

[smash84]

I guess you don't like nuance then or even mild mythbusting.

2001 Lara-Murali, I brought up his 2002 performance as a follow-up to show how special Lara's dominance of Murali was home and away.

99, Warne coming back from surgery quick and bowling pies is pretty much well established, even his own captain admitted that's why he dropped him from the last test. If you are using that as an example of spin mastery, it is problematic.

You are trying to declare Lara better in SL and Pakistan based on three series played there overall compared to seven for Tendulkar, hence my rejoinders.

None of the above takes away from Lara's awesome achievements though.

Funny enough, all the constant reminders about Lara's strong points are making me consider if I would actually rank him above Tendulkar. I have Tendulkar ahead of Lara mainly because of longevity. But I rate Viv so highly because outside of spreadsheets, he was a real life match winner. Could turn the match around in the space of a few overs. Could decimate the opposition. Lara was similar. He could take the match away from you very quickly. Something not present in Tendulkar, who was far more methodical in his approach. I do value these traits very highly. So maybe I might just reconsider having flashes of brilliance and then fizzling out rather than someone who delivers consistently but not spectacularly.

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Lara gave more match winning or series winning performances than either Sachin or Richards.

Even in his own team, Sachin was overshadowed by Dravid as a match winner.

 

[Jumno]

Tendulkar was destructive too in the late 90s.

Lara is a very attractive batsmen to watch

They both are great, Lara can destroy an attack

However tendulkar for me

 

[subshakerz]

Lara gave more match winning or series winning performances than either Sachin or Richards.

Even in his own team, Sachin was overshadowed by Dravid as a match winner.

Don't think Lara was more of a matchwinner or series winner than Viv.

Sachin overshadowed Dravid in his two peaks and Dravid overshadowed Sachin in his.