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****OFFICIAL**** Lara vs Tendulkar Debate Thread

honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
J_C said:
From what I remember, Lara was generally worse than Tendulkar against most of the great attacks/bowlers in live games but did a helluva lot better in dead rubbers. I am not much of a stats man (true story!) but I'm glad that the stats seem to confirm this. ;)

Here are their stats against the ATG bowling pairs of the 90s...

In live matches against McWarne,

Tendulkar averaged 45.25 with 2 tons,
Lara averaged 42.16 with 2 tons,

In live matches against Donald & Pollock

Tendulkar averaged 42.87 with 1 ton,
Lara averaged 32.16 without a hundred,

In live matches against Wasim & Waqar,

Tendulkar averaged 39.71 with 1 ton,
Lara averaged 31.14 without a hundred.

Tendulkar seems well ahead to me (at least against Pollock/Donald and the W's). He is also surprisingly ahead against McWarne even though he got little to no oppurtunities against them during his best years compared to Lara. I get similar results when I check their stats against (what I consider) formidable Australian, SA and Pakistani attacks....

Tendulkar averages 45.25 in 6 live Tests (1999, 2001, 2004) against quality Australian attacks.

Lara averages 41.68 in 19 live Tests ( 1995, 1996, 1999, 2000, 2003, 2005) against quality Australian attacks.


Tendulkar averages 32.91 in 7 live Tests (1989,1999) against quality Pakistani attacks.

Lara averages 28.67 from in 5 live Tests (1990,1993,1997) against quality Pakistani attacks.


Tendulkar averages 34.11 in 10 live Tests (1992,1996,1997,2000) against quality SA attacks.

Lara averages 33.35 in 7 live Tests (1992,1998,2001) against quality SA attacks.

And yet Lara seems to do FAR better than Tendulkar against the same attacks in dead rubbers! I get similar results even when I see their OVERALL records against Test-standard sides. Tendulkar averages 53+ and Lara 52+ overall. But Lara's average drops down to 48+ whereas Tendulkar's pretty much the same in live Tests.

My intention here is not to portray Lara as a dead rubber bully (even though the stats do sort of suggest that! :ph34r:) nor am I saying Tendulkar's superior stats in live Tests (against the ATG attacks and otherwise) definitively make him the better player. What I do want to point out is that it's Lara's performances in ...slightly less meaningful games that gives him the edge over/reduces the gap between him and Sachin against the best attacks/overall. That's it.
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Really interesting.. what exactly is the sample size we are talking about? How many dead rubber innings for Sachin and how many for Lara? Conveniently masked, I see :)
 
J_C

J_C

U19 Captain
honestbharani said:
Jeez..more clutching at straws.. You do understand that those dead rubbers won't have happened if the Windies were as good as India were in the noughties????????????????
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Just some harmless stats picking HB. No offence meant. But an interesting trend nonetheless. :)
 
Blaze 18

Blaze 18

Banned
What about knocks like Sangakkara's recent ton in England, his century on the last tour of India and Tendulkar's 50th century in Centurion? While not technically dead rubbers, the knocks all came when the match (or series, as the case may be) was over for all intents and purposes. Really, it's pointless to dissect their careers into such small samples. It's utterly meaningless and useless. I'd go as far as to say that you're insulting the legacies of both Tendulkar and Lara by indulging in this nonsensical statsguru warfare.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
J_C said:
Just some harmless stats picking HB. No offence meant. But an interesting trend nonetheless. :)
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you know what is an even more interesting trend? Windies had like 3 times more dead rubbers in that time than India or any other team not named Bangladesh... It is not harmless, it is just stupid.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Bun said:
sachin last played windies in 02
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dude, do you even read before you post? I said if Windies were as strong as India were in the noughties, they wouldn't have had to play in so many dead rubbers..


Meaning, India were good in the noughties so we rarely faced dead rubbers but Windies were woeful in the noughties so they faced dead rubbers just about every other series. Jeez............. 8-)
 
centurymaker

centurymaker

Cricketer Of The Year
not dead rubber bs again.
noone goes easy on you if it is a dead rubber.

btw had dhoni hung around with tendulkar in the 1st test against SA, who knows what would've happened
 
H

hang on

State Vice-Captain
Blaze 18 said:
What about knocks like Sangakkara's recent ton in England, his century on the last tour of India and Tendulkar's 50th century in Centurion? While not technically dead rubbers, the knocks all came when the match (or series, as the case may be) was over for all intents and purposes. Really, it's pointless to dissect their careers into such small samples. It's utterly meaningless and useless. I'd go as far as to say that you're insulting the legacies of both Tendulkar and Lara by indulging in this nonsensical statsguru warfare.
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absolutely.

that's why it is quite silly to use 3 conveniently chosen pace bowlers to come up with conclusions of who was better against pace. or to count injury time or othe fact that one had better batsmen while the other had better bowlers or that one debuted too early, (dis)counting longevity etc.

they are both superb. and comfortably ahead of the rest that i have watched. with tendulkar being that marginal amount ahead.
 
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centurymaker

centurymaker

Cricketer Of The Year
vcs said:
This thread refuses to die a peaceful death. :laugh:
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hope it does.

They are so close overall that, imo, in the end it comes down to how many years they were at the top of the game. Hence I wouldn't go for lara.

(If tendulkar hadn't really got out of his decline and still been averaging 40-45 a year on avg, then I would've gone for lara)
 
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