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*Official* Fourth Test at Headingley

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Key is not someone I can see long-term in this side, but for the time being he can come in and do a job for two games.
Funnily enough, I reckon he might just have a chance of an extended run if he makes a go of it. Most of our batting options look like natural #5 or 6s (Bopara, Bell, Collingwood) and, whilst you might fancy either of the latter two to maybe get away at #4, obvious it's the one position that seems set in stone and they'd get nosebleeds a spot higher. With Mick now giving it away we don't really have a natural #3 (Shah clearly not of the requisitie class), so there is a chance IMHO.

Plus he's still only 30, I think, despite having been around for years.
 
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GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Maybe, I don't know, I don't think we should assume that just because it's Headingley it's not worth picking a spinner.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Funnily enough, I reckon he might just have a chance of an extended run if he makes a go of it. Most of our batting options look like natural #5 or 6s (Bopara, Bell, Collingwood) and, whilst you might fancy either of the latter two to maybe get away at #4, obvious it's the one position that seems set in stone and they'd get nosebleeds a spot higher. With Mick now giving it away we don't really have a natural #3 (Shah clearly not of the requisitie class), so there is a cance IMHO.

Plus he's still only 30, I think, despite having been around for years.
Definitely agree about the point about them being 5s or 6s. Thought it when I was making my post but didn't want to stray too far away from the Test ahead of us. If Bell makes runs in one of the two Tests ahead, I reckon he can consider his place regained, but it's the batting order that then needs sorting. I think we've established that Pietersen isn't going to move up to 3 (and I'm not sure he should, anyway) so Key would be a decent shout.

I'm not as big on the importance of batting position as some, but you can make a case for 3 being the spot that requires the most versatility so we definitely need someone who feels comfortable there. If Key is the man, then fair enough. I just get the feeling that if he was in the long-term plans of the selectors he'd have been picked over the last 18 months, but then again, the other players they wanted to use have failed, so plan B it is.

Might be a moot point anyway if they stick with Bopara.
 

Uppercut

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Maybe, I don't know, I don't think we should assume that just because it's Headingley it's not worth picking a spinner.
Well obviously you look at the pitch first. I'd definitely be looking at McDonald in for Hauritz though unless it suggests something otherwise.
 

Top_Cat

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Well Hauritz isn't going to do anything, and if McDonald's not doing the job, at least you've strengthened the tail considerably.
Wouldn't mind that crystal ball you have.

Seriously, everyone was saying the same damn thing before the series started, (me included, tbh). At some point you have to admit he's been one of the better bowlers on decks which haven't suited him. Otherwise it's just denial and conventional wisdom. You're a strong proponent of picking the best team, Hauritz is in it as far as Aus are going, ahead of McD.

Moot point regardless; no way will Aus go into the side without him. Even, I'd hazard, if the pitch was green.
 
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GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Just saw a bit of an interview with Ponting and the vibe I'm getting is that changes will only be made if Lee and Haddin are available. Clark & McDonald may as well get on the plane now.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Clark has every right to wonder what he's done wrong. If he can't get a bowl at Leeds he ain't ever gonna get one.

Love Siddle, think he'll be star and is good for the game, but from what I've seen in the three tests so far I'd still be picking Clark first. Unless there are injury issues we aren't aware of, I suppose.
 

Uppercut

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Wouldn't mind that crystal ball you have.

Seriously, everyone was saying the same damn thing before the series started, (me included, tbh). At some point you have to admit he's been one of the better bowlers on decks which haven't suited him. Otherwise it's just denial and conventional wisdom. You're a strong proponent of picking the best team, Hauritz is in it as far as Aus are going, ahead of McD.

Moot point regardless; no way will Aus go into the side without him. Even, I'd hazard, if the pitch was green.
I've been fairly pro-Hauritz as the series has gone on, but I still think the almost equally-maligned McDonald would do more damage at Headingley (assuming it all reverts to type, of course). I've nothing against Hauritz, but McDonald's a more than useful bowler too. And he brings in more batting. It strikes me as odd that Australia were willing to bring Hauritz into the team on the "horses for courses" idea but aren't willing to remove him from the team for the same reason.

It won't happen, of course. But I'm backing McDonald.
 

Uppercut

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Might just be a Hoggardesque thing? :unsure:
Cue someone reeling out the line about him actually having been bad for ages, carefully cutting the stats to include his 13 wickets @ 37 in Australia that were better than any other English player.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Hmm, maybe, by Hoggardesque thing I meant that maybe the selectors see something we don't. I don't buy that Hoggy upset anyone and nor do I buy that he was dropped on the basis of one game. He had had a strange time of it in the preceeding couple of years - he was good in Australia and Sri Lanka, but hadn't been as good at home in 06 & 07 IMO
 

Pigeon

Banned
Ponting says Australia have turned the corner

Interesting assessment this from Ponting, from where I look at it, we got bowled out pretty cheaply in the 1st innings,and then allowed England once again to post a 1st innings score of 350+ despite having them 168/5.

The batting effort in the 2nd innings showed a lot of resolve and determination, and probably Ponting thinks that it would lift the morale of the side and help them perform better in the next game, Ponting's words also indicate that they might go with an unchanged side into the next test.
Yeah 21 overs 2 wickets for 92, certainly turned a corner. 8-)
 

social

Hall of Fame Member
Bopara, Broad, and Hauritz will play at Headingley whilst Clark wont

Just my 2 cents worth
 

Top_Cat

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I've been fairly pro-Hauritz as the series has gone on, but I still think the almost equally-maligned McDonald would do more damage at Headingley (assuming it all reverts to type, of course). I've nothing against Hauritz, but McDonald's a more than useful bowler too. And he brings in more batting. It strikes me as odd that Australia were willing to bring Hauritz into the team on the "horses for courses" idea but aren't willing to remove him from the team for the same reason.

It won't happen, of course. But I'm backing McDonald.
Hey I'm a McD backer too but I dunno if you can call Hauritz a horses-for-courses pick any more. For mine, things have changed and reckon he should be a regular pick unless the prevailing conditions are ridiculously in favour of one of the other bowlers.
 

Top_Cat

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Yeah 21 overs 2 wickets for 92, certainly turned a corner. 8-)
Look beyond the stats. Just watching him bowl, aside from when he turned all macho stupid bowler against Broad, pretty clear he's bowling better. Not 'well' yet but better.

Not unusual for bowlers to have slow starts to series'. Curtly Ambrose, for example.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Might just be a Hoggardesque thing? :unsure:
Looked sharp enough in the Loins' game once he was warmed up. Over 85mph occasionally, which is about as fast as he ever was. Started cautiously, but that's understandable. Comfortably outbowled Johnson, even if that looks like damning with faint praise in retrospect.

Look beyond the stats. Just watching him bowl, aside from when he turned all macho stupid bowler against Broad, pretty clear he's bowling better. Not 'well' yet but better.

Not unusual for bowlers to have slow starts to series'. Curtly Ambrose, for example.
All due respect to Johnson, but he's no Curtly Ambrose. Appreciate you aren't suggesting he is, but it's never going to be a flattering comparison.

In any event, didn't he do most of his good work in the first tests of both series versus SA?
 

andyc

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Looked sharp enough in the Loins' game once he was warmed up. Over 85mph occasionally, which is about as fast as he ever was. Started cautiously, but that's understandable. Comfortably outbowled Johnson, even if that looks like damning with faint praise in retrospect.



All due respect to Johnson, but he's no Curtly Ambrose. Appreciate you aren't suggesting he is, but it's never going to be a flattering comparison.

In any event, didn't he do most of his good work in the first tests of both series versus SA?
That was just coming off a home series though, where he'd been doing a lot of bowling. I remember Tubby (I think) saying at one stage that he's very much the kind of bowler that needs a lot of overs under his belt to get in to a groove and start bowling like he was in SA. I think we're just starting to see that now, and I'm excited to see how he goes in this Test. Obviously though, this isn't exactly an ideal trait for a bowler, but hopefully with time he'll get over it.
 

pup11

International Coach
Wouldn't mind that crystal ball you have.

Seriously, everyone was saying the same damn thing before the series started, (me included, tbh). At some point you have to admit he's been one of the better bowlers on decks which haven't suited him. Otherwise it's just denial and conventional wisdom. You're a strong proponent of picking the best team, Hauritz is in it as far as Aus are going, ahead of McD.

Moot point regardless; no way will Aus go into the side without him. Even, I'd hazard, if the pitch was green.
I agree so much with this...

The kind of stuff that keeps being said about Hauritz is just amazing, its almost a case of "since we know he is crap, he has no business of doing well", unless the track is loaded in the favor of fast bowlers, I would never play with all pace attack, and kudos to Ponting for sticking with Hauritz right through this tour so far, and that confidence shown in him is starting to show in his bowling too.

Uppercut said:
He's bowling neatly. He concedes runs more slowly than most of the Aussie attack but you never exactly worry about him. He'll never win Australia a game, particularly at Headingley.

Think Andrew McDonald would be a much better option at Headingley. Harsh on Hauritz but i don't give a ****. McDonald will be much more effective
Mate you are talkning as if a green-top is awaiting the Australians at Headingley, from what I have heard so far the pitch there is gonna be flat and dry, and in conditons like those, it would be utter madness playing with all pace one-dimensional attack, and not to forget I'm hoping Clark would play instead of Siddle at Headingley, and in that case you really don't need Macca' stump-to-stump bowling.
 

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