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*Official* Fifth Test (The Oval, London) 27-31 July

Kraken

Kraken

International 12th Man
honestbharani said:
They were also unlucky to lose Leach coz I feel if Lyon was not around for the first test, Australia probably lose that one too.
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Do you think if Leach is around, England win the first test? Cause I don't think he makes that much difference. Do you think he does better than his presumed replacement in Robinson? Doubtful. Also - if he's around Moeen isnt. Who has made distinctive contributions to this series (especially at Headingly). It's super easy to say Australia would lose the first without Lyon, maybe they would. Hey, England would've lost in Headingly if Wood wasn't available. You could make that player missing games argument about loads of players - doesn't make it a fair comparison
 
the big bambino

the big bambino

International Captain
We definitely miss Lyon more than Eng miss Leach. England have probably got more out of Moeen who has been the pinch hitter for their problems.

There's no way we should be resting our best from this match. Aus have won the WTC, retained the Ashes and now can win a series in England. That would be a fantastic trifecta and I can't see any player willingly sitting out the Oval. There could be argument for a new player to give the XI some freshness and if it came to that I'd pick Abbott over Neser assuming they leave out one of Haze or Starc. Murphy in for Green.
 
Skipper Pup

Skipper Pup

U19 Debutant
Prince EWS said:
100%. I'm not exactly a typical Australian fan but I definitely care who wins the series.

If it's 2-2 with a rained-out game in which England were dominating then they definitely have proper bragging rights as to being the better side (at least in England). They don't have the urn and that's important but it's not everything. Winning series matters.

Australia haven't won a series in England in 20 years, a period which included English teams far, far less hyped and celebrated than this one. If Australia wins 3-1 here it's absolutely huge.
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If the 5th test is rained out and we win 2-1 is it absolutely huge too?

I take your point, would be great to win the series outright just to shut down the narrative out there at the moment but realistically even if it's 3-1 they'll claim they outplayed us over 4 tests anyway and that we got lucky. People make a big deal of the 20 year thing, would you want to win this series more or less if it was just 5 years?

End of the day we have retained the Ashes, we flog them 5-0 regularly in Aus, we hold our own in England, and we're the #1 ranked test team right now. Anyone who wants to pretend that we're not the best team is coping.
 
L

loterry1994

International Debutant
Skipper Pup said:
If the 5th test is rained out and we win 2-1 is it absolutely huge too?

I take your point, would be great to win the series outright just to shut down the narrative out there at the moment but realistically even if it's 3-1 they'll claim they outplayed us over 4 tests anyway and that we got lucky. People make a big deal of the 20 year thing, would you want to win this series more or less if it was just 5 years?

End of the day we have retained the Ashes, we flog them 5-0 regularly in Aus, we hold our own in England, and we're the #1 ranked test team right now. Anyone who wants to pretend that we're not the best team is coping.
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Nah you’re kidding yourself if most Aussies and the aus team won’t be disappointed if the series in drawn having been 2-0 up. Winning in England is massive compared to just retaining the ashes. That’s why after the draw last test half the Aussies they interviewed barely seemed happy about it
 
Skipper Pup

Skipper Pup

U19 Debutant
loterry1994 said:
Nah you’re kidding yourself if most Aussies and the aus team won’t be disappointed if the series in drawn having been 2-0 up. Winning in England is massive compared to just retaining the ashes. That’s why after the draw last test half the Aussies they interviewed barely seemed happy about it
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Don't get me wrong, my preference would absolutely be for the last test to be rained out than to draw it 2-2. It just doesn't influence where the urn goes either way.

As for your last point, they're professional athletes who would take a great deal of responsibility of their own performances. Aside from Labuschagne, none of them played anywhere near a level they would be happy with.
 
Adorable Asshole

Adorable Asshole

International Regular
Skipper Pup said:
Haha sure, if the benchmark we're setting is to win a series in subcontinent conditions on doctored pitches.

Been maybe two teams that have done that this century.
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Skipper Pup said:
Someone raised a point about winning in India..

What do home results in 2021 against them have to do with this conversation? We beat them this year, when it mattered.
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Adorable Asshole said:
Still hasn't won a series against India in God knows how many years.
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Learn to read
 
L

loterry1994

International Debutant
Skipper Pup said:
Don't get me wrong, my preference would absolutely be for the last test to be rained out than to draw it 2-2. It just doesn't influence where the urn goes either way.

As for your last point, they're professional athletes who would take a great deal of responsibility of their own performances. Aside from Labuschagne, none of them played anywhere near a level they would be happy with.
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If they go out 5th test and get flogged that’ll be nothing to be happy about. This one there best opportunities to win a series over there. In 2019 they were trading a test each. They have a good chance to win.
 
Adders

Adders

Cricketer Of The Year
Skipper Pup said:
Don't get me wrong, my preference would absolutely be for the last test to be rained out than to draw it 2-2. It just doesn't influence where the urn goes either way.

As for your last point, they're professional athletes who would take a great deal of responsibility of their own performances. Aside from Labuschagne, none of them played anywhere near a level they would be happy with.
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Doesn't the bolded say everything about your mind set......not even a consideration of an Aussie win at the Oval and the scoreline being 3-1. Your best outcome is rained out test lol

I dont don't need too say much more......your countrymen have already shouted you down......but dead set fella you are the last person that should crow about this series.....you've already admitted that your your side is not good enough ffs.
 
Gob

Gob

International Coach
Skipper Pup said:
Bring Neser and Abbott into the squad, would also be giving Boland, Murphy and Harris a go.

Harris
Warner (his farewell)
Labuschagne
Smith (C)
Head
Neser
Carey
Abbott
Boland
Hazlewood
Murphy

Really not bothered with the outcome of this test so take the opportunity to rest Cummins, Starc, Khawaja, Marsh and Green.

Nothing would thrill me more than seeing this test end in 3 days after England decimate us - just for the boys to have a parade as they board the plane back home with the urn. Hopefully the UK press can also locate Head and Green in the London nightclubs just hours before the departure time.
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This is ****ing horrible
 
Skipper Pup

Skipper Pup

U19 Debutant
Adders said:
Doesn't the bolded say everything about your mind set......not even a consideration of an Aussie win at the Oval and the scoreline being 3-1. Your best outcome is rained out test lol

I dont don't need too say much more......your countrymen have already shouted you down......but dead set fella you are the last person that should crow about this series.....you've already admitted that your your side is not good enough ffs.
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I actually agree with parts of this. I don't think we're as good a chance of winning the 5th test as others on here are making out.

There's a few reasons for it but primarily we have lost our front line spinner, who is arguably our most important bowler. England are also playing highly motivated by the sense of injustice with this series to date, whereas our guys have already achieved what they set out to (i.e. return home with the urn). Without even looking at the odds I think the bookies would agree.

That's not an excuse to say we shouldn't try win the 5th test either, it's just a fact that there's something off with the Aussie mentality this series. It's been evident since the 2nd test, maybe remnants of the damage Stokes did in the 1st test and last series in Eng, maybe linked back to the loss of Lyon. I personally think some of it also is on our captain, who I'm one of the first to criticize for his tactics under pressure (an opinion I expect to be shouted down for too).

Aside from the points above, the team we are currently rolling out has too many passengers. Green has had a poor series, Hazlewood and Boland look completely ineffective, Murphy isn't ready and Warner is finished.

All these factors add up to why I don't really find myself invested in the outcome.
 
Kraken

Kraken

International 12th Man
Skipper Pup said:
England are also playing highly motivated by the sense of injustice with this series to date, whereas our guys have already achieved what they set out to (i.e. return home with the urn).
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lol what? The aim has always been to WIN the ashes, not just retain them. It's nice, sure, but not winning them outright will be seen as somewhat of a failure (especially considering we were 2-0 up)
 
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