*Official* English Football Season 2022/23

[GIMH]

When I first got into footy my dad would say that the UEFA Cup was sometimes harder to win than the European Cup

 

[wpdavid]

When I first got into footy my dad would say that the UEFA Cup was sometimes harder to win than the European Cup

Yeah, sometimes. Perhaps not when the great sides from Ajax and Bayern Munich were winning their league every season. Or a few years earlier when Celtic's great team were doing the same. But there would have been other seasons when the best teams in other countries hadn't actually won their leagues during the previous seasons, making the UEFA Cup a really tough competition.

 

[BoyBrumby]

English clubs were re-admitted in 1990/91 with the exception of Liverpool who had to serve an additional season and therefore Arsenal in 1991/92 were the first club back into the European Cup.

Ha, yep.

Ironically, given how many entrants the larger nations now get for the CL, Wafer's rationale for not allowing our runner-up (Villa, IIRC) into the European Cup was that it was reserved for champions.

Pretty sure ManUre won the CWC in England's first season back post-Heysel.

In 18 seasons between 1959 and 1976, eleven different clubs won the English league title, with none successfully defending it. Fourteen different teams lifted the FA Cup, which many players and managers regarded as more important than either the league or the European Cup.

The "impossible" double of league and FA Cup had at that time been achieved only once during the twentieth century.

Before 59 it hadn't been done in the 20th century at all, had it? Spuds (boo, hiss, etc.) famously did it in 60/61 and then the Arse in 70/71; before that only Preston North End and the Villa had done it, both in the 1800s.

When I first got into footy my dad would say that the UEFA Cup was sometimes harder to win than the European Cup

Ha, this is a bit of a meme among my Ipswich supporting mates who're still bitter they didn't win the title in 81, but did secure the Wafer Cup.

Some truth in it though, all the second and third placed teams from Germany, Italy, Spain, etc went into it (save those who'd won their domestic cup) and, often as not, they'd carry off the title in the season they were in the Wafer.

 

[Molehill]

By my reckoning, City will become the 6th different English Club to win the European Cup/Champions League since 1980 should they win it. Two others (from N London) have made finals too. The best any other country can do is Germany and Italy's 3 (and one of the German ones was very much thanks to an Englishman).

I wouldn't put it past a 7th English club doing it in the next 5 years either if the money continues to roll in.

 

[peterhrt]

Before 59 it hadn't been done in the 20th century at all, had it? Spuds (boo, hiss, etc.) famously did it in 60/61 and then the Arse in 70/71; before that only Preston North End and the Villa had done it, both in the 1800s.

Yes that's right. Even Chapman's Arsenal didn't manage it.

The maximum wage was a factor. In place between 1901 and 1961, a few months before Spurs' double.

 

[wpdavid]

By my reckoning, City will become the 6th different English Club to win the European Cup/Champions League since 1980 should they win it. Two others (from N London) have made finals too. The best any other country can do is Germany and Italy's 3 (and one of the German ones was very much thanks to an Englishman).

I wouldn't put it past a 7th English club doing it in the next 5 years either if the money continues to roll in.

I think you're right: Forest, Liverpool, Villa, Man Utd and Chelsea. Out of interest, who was the Englishman who played a big part in one of the German sides winning?

 

[GIMH]

I think you're right: Forest, Liverpool, Villa, Man Utd and Chelsea. Out of interest, who was the Englishman who played a big part in one of the German sides winning?

Keegan?

In other news…

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1660368621049200641

Ugly scenes in general from the fans and Ancelotti has called it out explicitly which is good to see. A strange thing to witness in 2023 in such a widely watched league but there you go.

Even without the provocation from the supporters though this is very strange usage of VAR. When you see the full context it seems a ridiculous red to me.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Got a nice sky blue jersey ready for Vini if he wants to leave the continent.

 

[BoyBrumby]

By my reckoning, City will become the 6th different English Club to win the European Cup/Champions League since 1980 should they win it. Two others (from N London) have made finals too. The best any other country can do is Germany and Italy's 3 (and one of the German ones was very much thanks to an Englishman).

I wouldn't put it past a 7th English club doing it in the next 5 years either if the money continues to roll in.

Yer Dirties got to the 75 final too.

And, true to form, got themselves banned from Europe for two years for taking the defeat with typical Yorkshire grace.

 

[wpdavid]

Keegan?

I don't think so. He'd left Hamburg three years before they won the European Cup in 1983

 

[Molehill]

I don't think so. He'd left Hamburg three years before they won the European Cup in 1983

Yeah, you're right. Funny how your mind confuses things over the years....he'd already joined and left the filth down the road from me by then.

 

[wpdavid]

In other news…

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1660368621049200641

Ugly scenes in general from the fans and Ancelotti has called it out explicitly which is good to see. A strange thing to witness in 2023 in such a widely watched league but there you go.

Even without the provocation from the supporters though this is very strange usage of VAR. When you see the full context it seems a ridiculous red to me.

It's hardly the first time that he's been subjected to racist abuse. As always, there are a lot of people putting their heads in the sand about the matter over there. If it helps, we'll take him at Palace if Wilf does go elsewhere.

 

[Socerer 01]

Paul Lambert was part of Dortmund that won in the 90s but he was a Scotsman

 

[Socerer 01]

Keegan?

In other news…

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1660368621049200641

Ugly scenes in general from the fans and Ancelotti has called it out explicitly which is good to see. A strange thing to witness in 2023 in such a widely watched league but there you go.

Even without the provocation from the supporters though this is very strange usage of VAR. When you see the full context it seems a ridiculous red to me.

Valencia fans were finally getting some sympathy for their owner problems and they have blown it all away by acting like this, pathetic club that deserves to go down and get nuked

 

[wpdavid]

Yer Dirties got to the 75 final too.

And, true to form, got themselves banned from Europe for two years for taking the defeat with typical Yorkshire grace.

I'd forgotten about the ban, but it was probably academic given their subsequent decline. It's perhaps worth saying that they were robbed blind in the 1975 final.

 

[peterhrt]

Out of interest, who was the Englishman who played a big part in one of the German sides winning?

Owen Hargreaves for Bayern in 2001. English father, Welsh mother, born in Canada.

 

[Spark]

Keegan?

In other news…

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1660368621049200641

Ugly scenes in general from the fans and Ancelotti has called it out explicitly which is good to see. A strange thing to witness in 2023 in such a widely watched league but there you go.

Even without the provocation from the supporters though this is very strange usage of VAR. When you see the full context it seems a ridiculous red to me.

I've seen this has actually caused something of a diplomatic incident wrt Brazil now too

 

[Furball]

When I first got into footy my dad would say that the UEFA Cup was sometimes harder to win than the European Cup

100%. The UEFA Cup was the barometer of a league's strength in depth; look at how many Italian winners and finalists there are between 1989 and 1999.

To win the old European Cup you had to (usually) get by a maximum of one English side, one West German side, one Spanish side and one Italian side. That's 4 top tier sides in the whole competition. Given the fact it was an open draw, you could get instances like in 1987/88 where Napoli and Real Madrid were drawn together in the first round, so round 2 is automatically going to be one big side down.

Sticking with the 87/88 theme, Rangers drew Dinamo Kyiv in round 1 - a tough draw given they were basically the USSR side who would go on to reach the final of the 1988 European Championships, and who had won the 1986 Cup Winners Cup and who had reached the semi finals of the 1987 European Cup. We progressed, and throw in the aforementioned Napoli v Real Madrid tie, and the draw opened up somewhat - we eliminated the Polish champions in round 2, and narrowly lost to Steau Bucharest in the quarters (who had won in 86, would reach the semis in 88 and who would reach the final in 89).

Compare that to Napoli's route to the 1989 UEFA Cup, where they had to beat Juventus, Bayern Munich and VfB Stuttgart from the quarter finals on win the thing.

 

[Furball]

By my reckoning, City will become the 6th different English Club to win the European Cup/Champions League since 1980 should they win it. Two others (from N London) have made finals too. The best any other country can do is Germany and Italy's 3 (and one of the German ones was very much thanks to an Englishman).

I wouldn't put it past a 7th English club doing it in the next 5 years either if the money continues to roll in.

All 3 of the big Dutch clubs have also won the European Cup.

 

[Molehill]

All 3 of the big Dutch clubs have also won the European Cup.

Only 2 since 1980, none for 30 years and frankly, no sign of it happening for another 30 either.

Only just seen the Vini Jnr video. That's disgusting and frankly you'd think there was a level of racism going on in the VAR HQ as well to come up with that decision. I have no idea why he would remain in Spain. Could easily see Newcastle or PSG making a big money offer....