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***Official*** Commonwealth Bank Tri-Series 2007-08
- Thread starter JASON
- Start date
Any system will be criticised by fans when their own team loses. I think D/L is a quite valid system and while it has some flaws, so does the other system you mention.
Personally, I don't really care - its just an ODI. In important games like WC just have reserve days to avoid controversy (which is already the case I think).
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
I am not sure the DL method is always fair but I guess it is the fairest around... Haven't gone into the other proposed method from the Indians in detail yet.
But everyone knew the methodology in advance and it was the same for both sides. Sri Lanka had the advantage of winning the toss and they used it very well. Well played to them and they completely deserved the win, simply because any which way one can look at it, they still did bat better than India.
India, on the other hand, need not feel too down about this defeat. It can be difficult to grip the ball, esp. for guys like Sreesanth who depends so much on the ball landing on the seam and doing something. He is always going to be pretty ineffective with a decent wet ball and a pitch where the ball juz skids on instead of doing something off the pitch, because of the rain. I think SS should be given another go in the next game....
But I do think the time is right for us to question the place of Sehwag in the ODI side. As I see it, we have two options: play with 7 batsmen or play with 5 bowlers.
If we are playing with 7 batsmen, I think the current line up is fine, but if we decide to play with 5 bowlers, I would like to see both Sehwag and Uthappa dropped and Karthik come in. The reasoning is pretty simple, for me.. With 5 specialist bowlers already in the side, Sehwag's utility comes down since his off spin might be rendered useless... And Uthappa, while he has a lot of shots and the ability to score very quickly (something often needed from ur #6 or #7), if we are playing with just 6 specialist batsmen (and that includes Dhoni), we need someone slightly more solid and I think DK, having been in Australia since the tests, might come in handy at #5. He can consolidate if he comes in at about a150/3 with singles or he can try to bat through a crisis if he comes in one.. I am not saying he can play in any situation but I think he is more likely than Raina or Uthappa or Tiwary in such situations.....
And I would like to see Chawla come in as the 5th bowler rather than someone like Praveen Kumar.. He is an attacking leg spinner and one likely to get crucial wickets in the middle overs and it is high time we took the risk and played him, I think.
But everyone knew the methodology in advance and it was the same for both sides. Sri Lanka had the advantage of winning the toss and they used it very well. Well played to them and they completely deserved the win, simply because any which way one can look at it, they still did bat better than India.
India, on the other hand, need not feel too down about this defeat. It can be difficult to grip the ball, esp. for guys like Sreesanth who depends so much on the ball landing on the seam and doing something. He is always going to be pretty ineffective with a decent wet ball and a pitch where the ball juz skids on instead of doing something off the pitch, because of the rain. I think SS should be given another go in the next game....
But I do think the time is right for us to question the place of Sehwag in the ODI side. As I see it, we have two options: play with 7 batsmen or play with 5 bowlers.
If we are playing with 7 batsmen, I think the current line up is fine, but if we decide to play with 5 bowlers, I would like to see both Sehwag and Uthappa dropped and Karthik come in. The reasoning is pretty simple, for me.. With 5 specialist bowlers already in the side, Sehwag's utility comes down since his off spin might be rendered useless... And Uthappa, while he has a lot of shots and the ability to score very quickly (something often needed from ur #6 or #7), if we are playing with just 6 specialist batsmen (and that includes Dhoni), we need someone slightly more solid and I think DK, having been in Australia since the tests, might come in handy at #5. He can consolidate if he comes in at about a150/3 with singles or he can try to bat through a crisis if he comes in one.. I am not saying he can play in any situation but I think he is more likely than Raina or Uthappa or Tiwary in such situations.....
And I would like to see Chawla come in as the 5th bowler rather than someone like Praveen Kumar.. He is an attacking leg spinner and one likely to get crucial wickets in the middle overs and it is high time we took the risk and played him, I think.
biased indian
International Coach
i was in no way criticising D\L..just giving an example that some other methods are also around...
As far as yesterdays game was considred i was alwyas saying that we scored very slowly..a minimum of 220 was needed yestearday.. that mean we were atleast 25 runs less than a good score for a 29 over game
biased indian
International Coach
Sorry wont even consider Dk at this point of time...even if we play 9 batsmen...will pick rain and tiwary over him any day..i think he was picked as a cover for dhoni and that is th eonly chance i see for him to play as a WK and no other role..he has been given a lot of chnace as far as i am considered we will be better of giving some chance to uthappa, tiwary or raina rather than givng DK another chance...
two guys i dont like in the current team are gambir and DK..ok gambir have played some good inngs so far in this series so he can play but DK in ODI.....no way
Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
They didn't miss out on anything. Australia bowled and fielded extremely well.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
not sure if you got my point there...
My idea is that IF we are playing with 5 bowlers, our no.5 should be a guy who can handle a crisis and I think, IN the current side, DK has more chance of succeeding in that role than Raina or Tiwary... Ideally, DK won't even make my ODI squad. I would rather have Badrinath there.. Better batsman by a margin and also can bowl and thus add something to the side... But given the options right now, I think that would be the best way to go. Also, I think even in domestic cricket and in the odd ODI he has played at that position, he has seemed good. Remember how he was talked up as a finisher type player for India after that summer in England..
ODD though that he seems to do better at the top order in tests and struggles a bit lower down and it seems the exact opposite with him in ODIs...
adharcric
International Coach
You can't really drop Uthappa though, he hasn't had much of a chance and was practically a regular in this one-day side as the finisher before he failed against Australia. Sehwag, however, should go. Gambhir can open but he's looking fine at 3 so perhaps promote Uthappa to the top to partner Sachin?
Uthappa, Sachin, Gambhir, Yuvraj, Sharma, Dhoni, Pathan, Bhajji, Chawla, Sreesanth, Ishant
Karthik should not even be in the one-day side - the only reason I'm not complaining is because he's the reserve keeper as well. This coming from a huge Karthik fan. Oh yeah, Tiwary and Raina need a shot at some point soon. Thoughts on this side?
Uthappa, Sachin, Gambhir, Yuvraj, Sharma, Dhoni, Pathan, Bhajji, Chawla, Sreesanth, Ishant
Karthik should not even be in the one-day side - the only reason I'm not complaining is because he's the reserve keeper as well. This coming from a huge Karthik fan. Oh yeah, Tiwary and Raina need a shot at some point soon. Thoughts on this side?
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irfan
State Captain
I'd still give Sehwag a go as he is handy with the ball and will inevitably get a big score on Aus pitches unlike the unproven Uthappa. Swap Chawla for Munaf Patel (if 100% fit). That lineup seems about right then.
With all the success surrounding Sharma and his pace and bounce - surely Pankaj has to have a go as well, maybe against the Lankans ? The dude practically carried Rajasthan on his back. No easy feat if you ask me.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
not saying he has to be dropped, but I juz feel that with his technique... He is not one you want in the side when you are playing just 6 specialist batsmen..... And him opening would be a horrible move because we saw how he went in the Windies... He is not the one you want where the ball moves even a little bit sideways...
If he has to play he has to bat at 6 or 7 and be the hitter in the side.... And when playing with 6 specialist batsmen, I get the feeling that it is a role we can do without.. Perhaps expect Dhoni and Pathan at 6 and 7 to take up that role... And if we are playing Praveen Kumar, who has a bit of a reputation as a hitter at FC level, as the 4th bowler, then so much the better.
My point is, when playing with 6 batsmen, we would need a guy who can grind out runs in a crisis than a guy who can come out all guns blazing from the word go. To me, in the current side, Uthappa defines the second type and DK the first. I am really not sure about both Raina and Tiwary because if you look at how they batted at FC level, they are aggressive batsmen but their technique is less than decent. I would just like to see DK trying to fill the role that Dravid was playing for our side. Get the feeling that he would be successful in that role. Most of his limited overs success have come at playing in that kind of a position and role.... Since he is in the side, we might as well try him that way.
Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
Uthappa when in a crisis:
http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/297799.html
Uthappa when he needs to hit out late in the 1st innings when building a total:
http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/297796.html
Uthappa when he needs to hit out late in the 2nd innings when chasing a big total:
http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/258476.html
http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/297798.html
Plus he's a gun fielder. I understand where you're coming from honestbharani, but I'll tell you what. Knowing we had Uthappa coming in at 8 vs. Australia at the MCG was a massive relief when the wickets started to tumble. True, we didn't need him at the end, but he's good insurance.
I wouldn't be pissed if he was dropped for a bowler or allrounder mind you, but I think you underrate him a little.
http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/297799.html
Uthappa when he needs to hit out late in the 1st innings when building a total:
http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/297796.html
Uthappa when he needs to hit out late in the 2nd innings when chasing a big total:
http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/258476.html
http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/297798.html
Plus he's a gun fielder. I understand where you're coming from honestbharani, but I'll tell you what. Knowing we had Uthappa coming in at 8 vs. Australia at the MCG was a massive relief when the wickets started to tumble. True, we didn't need him at the end, but he's good insurance.
I wouldn't be pissed if he was dropped for a bowler or allrounder mind you, but I think you underrate him a little.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
the first instance has been very much an one off, so far.. Not saying DK is much better but at least in terms of technique, he seems more organised....
The other two instances show that he is very much THE man you want as a 7th batsman... I am talking about him being the 6th in a side.. You already have Dhoni and Pathan to do the hitting, would rather have an insurance type player there than a hitter and RIGHT NOW, I feel that DK is a better option. Obviously, if Dhoni and the selectors feel Uthappa can do that as well, and there is no reason why he can't improve, then it makes sense. And as far as fielding is concerned, DK is just as good... And I rate Raina better than both as a fielder....
Neil Pickup
Cricket Web Moderator
Ultimately the difference between the D/L system and the VJD system are different sets of tables from different source games & giving slightly different weightings to the powerplays and the slog overs. The methodology is identical.
western_warrior
Cricket Spectator
well which one brings more satisfaction?
viktor
State Vice-Captain
Does the D/L method account for the side bowling second (A) having less overs to bowl out the other side (B) ? I guess since you assume 100% resources, B's target is proportionally higher but that doesn't reflect that A has less opportunity to win the game by bowling out B. Or may be it does..I was hoping you as the resident D/L expert could clear that up.
Neil Pickup
Cricket Web Moderator
As limited-overs cricket as a concept recognises no difference in the team bowling second winning by either (i) bowling their opposition out, or (ii) restricting them to a score below the target, the D/L system sees no need for any distinction to be made here.
I think that's what you're asking, anyway - the fact that it's harder for the batting team to be bowled out is compenstated for by the increase in their required run-rate.
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
I've been thinking about this for a while now, but I think now Dhoni can't be considered a bad keeper. His keeping has been very good, and it has improved from England. I think he is now a solid keeper with a pretty safe pair of hands. And to the spin bowlers, he is pretty much excellent, with three or four fantastic stumpings in the last 4-5 months.
Migara
Cricketer Of The Year
At last, a win for SL. Badly needed it and got a flat track to get the batsman going.
However in Perth, Dilshan might struggle to open. Sangakkara will be a better bet.
Kulasekara is useless. Get Welagedara in against Aussies. Remembering that he moves the ball in to the lefties off the pitch, makes him a good bet bowling at Gilly and Haydos.
My XI for next match;
Jayasuriya, Sangakkara, Silva, Jayawardane, Dilshan, Kapugedara, Maharoof, Vaas, Malinga, Murali, Welagedara
However in Perth, Dilshan might struggle to open. Sangakkara will be a better bet.
Kulasekara is useless. Get Welagedara in against Aussies. Remembering that he moves the ball in to the lefties off the pitch, makes him a good bet bowling at Gilly and Haydos.
My XI for next match;
Jayasuriya, Sangakkara, Silva, Jayawardane, Dilshan, Kapugedara, Maharoof, Vaas, Malinga, Murali, Welagedara