***Official Australia in India***

[pasag]

It would probably help if he bowls a decent amount for Victoria too. Suffering from a severe lack of overs, is White. As I've pointed out, a bloke like Andy Symonds bowled more overs last year in fewer matches than White did.



Easy. In Delhi, Kumble wins India matches so Mishra should miss out. Sucks for him but he's only 25, plenty of time for him to cement a place after Kumble is gone. Probably depends on how well he bowls in the second dig too. Yes he ran through the Aussies and did bowl well but how much of that is because he was an unknown quantity? Can you guarantee he'll have the same effect in the next innings or next Test? His overuse of the wrong'un might count against him now the Aussies knows how much he uses it; not as if it's unpickable. Don't think someone can fluke a 5-fer on debut purely because he's an unknown quantity?

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/63866.html

This is assuming Kumble is fit too. I get the feeling he's been carrying for a while now. If he's still unfit then, sure, keep Mishra.

Honestly, I think the notion that he's going to turn around a year of bad form just because the track suits him and he's done well there in the past to be a bit of wishful thinking at best. Keep the bloke in form, not the one the Aussies have just taken 0/160 off.

 

[Top_Cat]

Honestly, I think the notion that he's going to turn around a year of bad form just because the track suits him and he's done well there in the past to be a bit of wishful thinking at best. Keep the bloke in form, not the one the Aussies have just taken 0/160 off.

You may well be right. I think assuming Mishra will bowl as well and rip through the Aussies in the same way through the rest of the series is wishful thinking of a similar order, though.

EDIT: As I said, though, reckon he's been injured for a while and shouldn't be playing on that basis.

 

[pup11]

It would probably help if he bowls a decent amount for Victoria too. Suffering from a severe lack of overs, is White. As I've pointed out, a bloke like Andy Symonds bowled more overs last year in fewer matches than White did.

I think bowling more overs for Vics would help him no doubts about that, but still at best that's only going to improve his accuracy a bit, but with howling technical faults in his bowling action he won't turn himself into a test standard spinner by just bowling more overs for Vics, he's gotta work with someone who can help him fix those problems and re-model his action into a more techinically correct one.

 

[aussie]

AWTA and HJ's post.

White's role was also tenable (just, in the absence of McGain) if Lee and Clark were getting the job done. He could bowl a few overs here and there and keep things tight.

But with Lee seemingly innocuous ATM and Clark injured he's not the answer.

The question, though, is Who Is? Had there been no injuries or unavailabilites, presumably the side would have been:

Katich
Hayden
Ponting
Hussey
Clarke
Symonds
Haddin
Lee
Johnson
Clark
McGain

On paper, the side that's there now, with Watson at 6 and White at 8, bats deeper, but in truth I don't think it does.

Thats, true. Symonds had basically taken over Gilly's counter attacking role down the order & its very much missed at the moment.

 

[pasag]

You may well be right. I think assuming Mishra will bowl as well and rip through the Aussies in the same way through the rest of the series is wishful thinking of a similar order, though.

EDIT: As I said, though, reckon he's been injured for a while and shouldn't be playing on that basis.

No, I think the Indian bowlers will take turns at ripping through our batting line up as the series goes on

 

[Top_Cat]

No, I think the Indian bowlers will take turns at ripping through our batting line up as the series goes on

At this rate, strong chance of Sehwag having a turn, tbh.

 

[Prince EWS]

AWTA and HJ's post.

White's role was also tenable (just, in the absence of McGain) if Lee and Clark were getting the job done. He could bowl a few overs here and there and keep things tight.

But with Lee seemingly innocuous ATM and Clark injured he's not the answer.

The question, though, is Who Is? Had there been no injuries or unavailabilites, presumably the side would have been:

Katich
Hayden
Ponting
Hussey
Clarke
Symonds
Haddin
Lee
Johnson
Clark
McGain

On paper, the side that's there now, with Watson at 6 and White at 8, bats deeper, but in truth I don't think it does.

Yeah, agree with this.

I'm fairly sure that Symonds will come straight back in for White though which I'd be very much against. There's nothing wrong with the top 6 so there's no way we're going to need Symonds or Watson at 7 and Haddin at 8 - another bowler, even if he isn't great is going to be of much more use as they'll surely be better than Symonds or Watson as a fourth option.

Watson's bowling in the first innings of this match really summed it up for me - he bowled a couple of good spells when he really got it through, but once he had to bowl long spells and basically be used as a frontline bowler, his pace and intensity dropped right off - he's just not fit or confident enough in his own body to play that role.

White should be replaced with a bowler - whether it be Bollinger, Siddle, McGain or Scott Muller - and if Symonds comes back into the reckoning it has to be for Watson or Clarke. Watson's one of my favourite players if not my favourite player currently and I have a lot more faith in him as a Test batsman and a Test bowler than Symonds, but what Symonds has actually done for the team in the last couple of years can't be ignored just because I said so - he needs to play once he's mentally right for the job.

Symonds will almost definitely just come straight in for White which I really think would be a mistake given we only have two proven bowlers, a batting lineup ro die for and an allrounder who can't/shouldn't bowl as a frontline bowler.

 

[aussie]

I think bowling more overs for Vics would help him no doubts about that, but still at best that's only going to improve his accuracy a bit, but with howling technical faults in his bowling action he won't turn himself into a test standard spinner by just bowling more overs for Vics, he's gotta work with someone who can help him fix those problems and re-model his action into a more techinically correct one.

I don't know if anyone have ever checked it out, but Cameron White's bowling (or lack of it) at this stage of his career draws a striking similarity to the last spin-bowling all-rounder Australia has had in Richie Benaud & his FC stats where ever worst before he debuted & he spent 6 years on the test stage working out his strenghts.

So even though White isn't ready for test cricket as a bowler, i think he has shown enough raw goods in India that down the line once he goes back to Victoria & actually bowls himself you never know what can happen. Thats what excited me about White.

 

[Prince EWS]

I think bowling more overs for Vics would help him no doubts about that, but still at best that's only going to improve his accuracy a bit, but with howling technical faults in his bowling action he won't turn himself into a test standard spinner by just bowling more overs for Vics, he's gotta work with someone who can help him fix those problems and re-model his action into a more techinically correct one.

Is there even any evidence that he actually will bowl more overs for Victoria? I'm sure the Australian selectors would love it if he did but I don't really think it's in Victoria's best interests - they've got McGain as their specialist spinner (with Holland, who they have just blooded, as backup) and McDonald who is a better fifth option. White's going to be the sixth bowler unless the pitch is really turning, and that's a distinctly rare event on Australian pitches.

 

[howardj]

For mine - until a decent spinner is available in which Ponting has confidence - when Symonds comes back in, it should be for White, not Watson.

 

[Top_Cat]

Watto starts the bowling for the day. Ballsy move.

 

[Top_Cat]

Is there even any evidence that he actually will bowl more overs for Victoria? I'm sure the Australian selectors would love it if he did but I don't really think it's in Victoria's best interests - they've got McGain as their specialist spinner (with Holland, who they have just blooded, as backup) and McDonald who is a better fifth option. White's going to be the sixth bowler unless the pitch is really turning, and that's a distinctly rare event on Australian pitches.

Yeah exactly. White is going to be batting top-order for Vic and probably not bowling at all next season. It's why his selection is such a confusing one.

 

[aussie]

Yeah, agree with this.

I'm fairly sure that Symonds will come straight back in for White though which I'd be very much against. There's nothing wrong with the top 6 so there's no way we're going to need Symonds or Watson at 7 and Haddin at 8 - another bowler, even if he isn't great is going to be of much more use as they'll surely be better than Symonds or Watson as a fourth option.

Watson's bowling in the first innings of this match really summed it up for me - he bowled a couple of good spells when he really got it through, but once he had to bowl long spells and basically be used as a frontline bowler, his pace and intensity dropped right off - he's just not fit or confident enough in his own body to play that role.

White should be replaced with a bowler - whether it be Bollinger, Siddle, McGain or Scott Muller - and if Symonds comes back into the reckoning it has to be for Watson or Clarke. Watson's one of my favourite players if not my favourite player currently and I have a lot more faith in him as a Test batsman and a Test bowler than Symonds, but what Symonds has actually done for the team in the last couple of years can't be ignored just because I said so - he needs to play once he's mentally right for the job.

Symonds will almost definitely just come straight in for White which I really think would be a mistake given we only have two proven bowlers, a batting lineup ro die for and an allrounder who can't/shouldn't bowl as a frontline bowler.

Spot on. A possible suggestion to accomadating Watson/Symonds although i don't think it has ever been tried in test history before is playing this line-up with a bit of "In the test match flexibility":

Hayden
Hussey/Watson
Ponting
Hussey/Watson
Clarke
Symonds
Haddin
Lee
Johnson
Clark
McGain/Siddle

Hussey/Watson: Although extremely harsh on The Kat, but given that in this post McGrath/Warne i think the bowling attack needs as many options as possible TBH.

Lee & Clark we can always depend for another year at least (hopefully) & with Johnson still proned to losing the plot, McGain when back an unknown whether he is a wicket-tacker or a run-blocker & the likes of Siddle, Tait & Noffke talented but not fully proven. Having Watto has an option would be very useful for me.

Hussey/Watson batting roles could rotate in a test by i.e If Australia bat first then open with Watto since in most cases i'd like to keep Hussey in the important # 4 role. But if Australia bowl 1st & Watto has a 15-20 over workload then let Hussey open & Watto @ 4,

Don't think that swithc would affect the dynamics of the batting especially given that Watson's batting is best suited to the top 5.

 

[Top_Cat]

White from the other end. Now this is just weird......

 

[social]

Yeah, agree with this.

I'm fairly sure that Symonds will come straight back in for White though which I'd be very much against. There's nothing wrong with the top 6 so there's no way we're going to need Symonds or Watson at 7 and Haddin at 8 - another bowler, even if he isn't great is going to be of much more use as they'll surely be better than Symonds or Watson as a fourth option.

Watson's bowling in the first innings of this match really summed it up for me - he bowled a couple of good spells when he really got it through, but once he had to bowl long spells and basically be used as a frontline bowler, his pace and intensity dropped right off - he's just not fit or confident enough in his own body to play that role.

White should be replaced with a bowler - whether it be Bollinger, Siddle, McGain or Scott Muller - and if Symonds comes back into the reckoning it has to be for Watson or Clarke. Watson's one of my favourite players if not my favourite player currently and I have a lot more faith in him as a Test batsman and a Test bowler than Symonds, but what Symonds has actually done for the team in the last couple of years can't be ignored just because I said so - he needs to play once he's mentally right for the job.
Symonds will almost definitely just come straight in for White which I really think would be a mistake given we only have two proven bowlers, a batting lineup ro die for and an allrounder who can't/shouldn't bowl as a frontline bowler.

Symonds is mentally right now, he was in Darwin and the WI - the decision was purely political

As Ive said before, if you dont pick a cricket team on cricketing merit, then you are asking for trouble

 

[social]

As for White, the guy is not bowling badly at all and should be persevered with

 

[pasag]

This is embarrassing.

 

[Prince EWS]

Gambhir's technique against the quicks is pretty ordinary at times but I really don't think there's anyone in world cricket currently I'd rather watch play spin bowling.

 

[aussie]

Yeah exactly. White is going to be batting top-order for Vic and probably not bowling at all next season. It's why his selection is such a confusing one.

Having a look a Victoria squad this season, when White & Siddle go the best FC XI looks like it could be:

Rogers
Jewell
Hodge
Hussey
White
McDonald
Wade
Siddle
McGain
Harwood
Nannes

Its all up to him of course but with Siddle/Harwood/Nannes/McGain the main 4, don't see why White via work in the nets can't make himself in the coming season more of a 5th/6th change bowling option that McDonald, Hodge or Hussey TBH.

 

[social]

This is embarrassing.

A dropped catch, 2 missed runouts and a misfield in 4 overs - way to support the bowlers guys