Sir Redman
State Vice-Captain
Then again, you're English so....luckyeddie said:Well, he IS English.
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***Official*** Australia in England (The Ashes)
- Thread starter James
- Start date
PY said:Thank you for that, I know to ignore anything you say as being Scallywag Mark II.
.
Everytime England start loosing PY tries to introduce a bit of flamebait to move the focus of Englands performance.
PY you really need to be a bit more humble in defeat instead of loosing your rag and trying to inflame others. Take it like a man (or woman or whatever you are).
Being a moderator you have a responsibility to show the others how to post without being a tool. I know its hard not lash out but if you cant do it then how do you expect others not to.
So stop being a moron and accept defeat with a bit of grace.
Yeah yeah I know you will run off to James crying because I called you a moron, but mate you are such a slow witted dip shlt.
Now that we have sorted that out on with the ashes.PY said:Yes. I accept your point without arguing. You are my king.
I don't doubt the fact I'm a moron, isn't everyone that supports England a moron for you? I think I'll take my chances with you son.
Oh PS, prove I'm a troll please, you're too kind in advance.
Top_Cat
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A couple of thoughts (because I AM the cricketing expert on the site and all of you look up to me, have built a shrine, hero worhship, etc., etc.). Actually the truth is I haven't visited the site for a couple of days and can't be bothered reading back 50 pages.
- Clarke's great knock will keep in in the side and will likely continue to cover his propensity to square-up to full deliveries moving in. He may have taken this game away from England but I think they'd still be pretty confident about knocking him over. He might get another score in the series, though.
- Vaughan seems to have something against Simon Jones and Asheley Giles. Although they didn't bowl terribly well in the first part of the Aussie second innings, Jones' second spell where he had a few catches dropped off him was excellent and showed he just got taken to a bit. The thing is, if he doesn't bowl two front-line bowlers much, then it automatically puts more of a strain on the others and already, Harmi and Flintoff are feeling it. Did anyone notice how much their pace dropped in the latter half of the Aussie innings? They were bowling within themselves probably because they were a bit stiff and sore from all the work but also because I think they were preserving themselves a bit. They might be able to keep up the workload for this Test and maybe the second and third but if this keeps up, imagine what the image of Harmi limping off the pitch with a hammie strain will do to morale. Vaughan needs to have enough confidence in his back-up bowlers or get them out of the side because Flintoff and Harmi, although England's best bowlers, are already heavily under the pump physically.
- Shane Warne's spells in this second dig have been absolutely magnificent. The only player who has played him with any confiendence has been Pietersen. Tresothick got a good ball, Bell was VERY unlucky (he picked the leggie but for some reason it didn't turn; it was definitely NOT the slider) and Flintoff was undone by some quality bowling beforehand and a pretty sneaky faster ball. Flintoff may play pace better than spin but in this instance, he was undone by some great bowling, not so much poor batting.
- Brett Lee has also bowled brilliantly this match. He's cut back on the no-balls, his short balls have been intelligent (rare for him!) and when he's bowled length balls, he's had the batsmen groping on several occasions. He hasn't been really economical but that's not his style. That caught-and-bowled was something I wouldn't have backed many other really quick bowlers to take, showing what a great athlete he is, and the ball he got Vaughan with was the ball of the match so far, simply unplayable. Nasty, even. Vaughan couldn't do much about that. I certainly was skeptical about his selection but he may well have finally turned the corner. Why on Earth that full-toss to Pietersen was given not-out LBW I'll never understand, however..............
- Kevin Pietersen has played like a guy with 50 Tests under his belt, not a debutant. He's hit the ball well and smacked a few 6's, etc. but I've really liked how he's defended when needed and looked to push the ball around when the bowlers have been on top. Quite intelligent stuff and a real in-yo-face to those who say he's a brainless slogger and nothing more. He has a pretty sound technique (generally bottom-hand dominant) and when he does decide the ball has to go, it goes long. Yes he has a pretty pronounced leg-side bias with his shots but then, so did one player whose already been mentioned in this thread, Viv. And when the opposition sides started targeting Viv's off-side weakness, they had a degree of success but then they turned him into the best off-side player in the world by giving him plenty of practice. And Pietersen's already hit some really crisp off-side shots.
- Clarke's great knock will keep in in the side and will likely continue to cover his propensity to square-up to full deliveries moving in. He may have taken this game away from England but I think they'd still be pretty confident about knocking him over. He might get another score in the series, though.
- Vaughan seems to have something against Simon Jones and Asheley Giles. Although they didn't bowl terribly well in the first part of the Aussie second innings, Jones' second spell where he had a few catches dropped off him was excellent and showed he just got taken to a bit. The thing is, if he doesn't bowl two front-line bowlers much, then it automatically puts more of a strain on the others and already, Harmi and Flintoff are feeling it. Did anyone notice how much their pace dropped in the latter half of the Aussie innings? They were bowling within themselves probably because they were a bit stiff and sore from all the work but also because I think they were preserving themselves a bit. They might be able to keep up the workload for this Test and maybe the second and third but if this keeps up, imagine what the image of Harmi limping off the pitch with a hammie strain will do to morale. Vaughan needs to have enough confidence in his back-up bowlers or get them out of the side because Flintoff and Harmi, although England's best bowlers, are already heavily under the pump physically.
- Shane Warne's spells in this second dig have been absolutely magnificent. The only player who has played him with any confiendence has been Pietersen. Tresothick got a good ball, Bell was VERY unlucky (he picked the leggie but for some reason it didn't turn; it was definitely NOT the slider) and Flintoff was undone by some quality bowling beforehand and a pretty sneaky faster ball. Flintoff may play pace better than spin but in this instance, he was undone by some great bowling, not so much poor batting.
- Brett Lee has also bowled brilliantly this match. He's cut back on the no-balls, his short balls have been intelligent (rare for him!) and when he's bowled length balls, he's had the batsmen groping on several occasions. He hasn't been really economical but that's not his style. That caught-and-bowled was something I wouldn't have backed many other really quick bowlers to take, showing what a great athlete he is, and the ball he got Vaughan with was the ball of the match so far, simply unplayable. Nasty, even. Vaughan couldn't do much about that. I certainly was skeptical about his selection but he may well have finally turned the corner. Why on Earth that full-toss to Pietersen was given not-out LBW I'll never understand, however..............
- Kevin Pietersen has played like a guy with 50 Tests under his belt, not a debutant. He's hit the ball well and smacked a few 6's, etc. but I've really liked how he's defended when needed and looked to push the ball around when the bowlers have been on top. Quite intelligent stuff and a real in-yo-face to those who say he's a brainless slogger and nothing more. He has a pretty sound technique (generally bottom-hand dominant) and when he does decide the ball has to go, it goes long. Yes he has a pretty pronounced leg-side bias with his shots but then, so did one player whose already been mentioned in this thread, Viv. And when the opposition sides started targeting Viv's off-side weakness, they had a degree of success but then they turned him into the best off-side player in the world by giving him plenty of practice. And Pietersen's already hit some really crisp off-side shots.
Nate
You'll Never Walk Alone
Man, this match is mad.
Warne has bowled some magic deliveries. And that Brett Lee full toss! WHAT THE?!? Couldn`t believe it. Drop Dizzy for Kasper though, methinks. Love watching it.
Pietersen doing very well. Good opening stand. I do indeed think that the umpiring decisions have gone England`s way. But I guess it all evens out eventually.
Warne has bowled some magic deliveries. And that Brett Lee full toss! WHAT THE?!? Couldn`t believe it. Drop Dizzy for Kasper though, methinks. Love watching it.
Pietersen doing very well. Good opening stand. I do indeed think that the umpiring decisions have gone England`s way. But I guess it all evens out eventually.
Top_Cat
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http://www.smh.com.au/news/cricket/ashes-umpire-admits-he-got-it-wrong/2005/07/24/1122143718119.html
Wow, big admission from Rudi if he made it (the way I read it, Brett is saying Rudi admitted he made a mistake but there doesn't seem to be comments to that effect from Rudi himself).
Wow, big admission from Rudi if he made it (the way I read it, Brett is saying Rudi admitted he made a mistake but there doesn't seem to be comments to that effect from Rudi himself).
As there have been a no. of posts on possible team changes already, Ithought I'd weigh in with my two cents worth.
Barring exceptional performances over the next 2 days, I see the following players as being vulnerable - Gillespie, Bell, Jones, Giles and Hoggard.
Gillespie - has been well below par with the ball and probably should've lost his place to Kaspa (better old ball bowler and strong into the wing, etc) for this match. Unfortunately for Aus, his exclusion really leaves the tail vulnerable as Warne, Lee, Kaspa and McGrath cannot be relied upon for any meaningful contributions with the bat. However, he is in the team to bowl and has not been up to scratch. His fielding is ordinary as well and, as such, must go.
Bell - obviously talented but has flaws in his technique and did not pick Warne. Should be maintained as an investment in the future but no. 4 in an Ashes series is not his spot.
Jones - horrible with the gloves testerday but apparently a better bat than his competitors. His errors with the gloves will continue as his technique is so dodgy and, as such, England cannot afford to retain him. Replace with abetter keeper.
Giles - Aus have little respect for him and I cannot see him even holding up an end on a good wicket. Play him where there is potential turn but otherwise he should be replaced by a batsman.
Hoggard - very ordinary in this match in largely favourable conditions. Inaccurate bowling at around 80 mph just wont cut it against this Aus team. Despite taking his wicket, being made to bowl 2 feet outside the off-stump to Clarke was embarrassing. Given his form in SA, Id give him another game but unless he regains his nip, he'll prove expensive as the series wears on.
Anyway, they're my thoughts. Whilst the English selectors, in particular, have cause to panic, Gillespie and Jones are the only 2 that are automatic exclusions for the next match barring vastly improved performances in the remainder of this game.
Barring exceptional performances over the next 2 days, I see the following players as being vulnerable - Gillespie, Bell, Jones, Giles and Hoggard.
Gillespie - has been well below par with the ball and probably should've lost his place to Kaspa (better old ball bowler and strong into the wing, etc) for this match. Unfortunately for Aus, his exclusion really leaves the tail vulnerable as Warne, Lee, Kaspa and McGrath cannot be relied upon for any meaningful contributions with the bat. However, he is in the team to bowl and has not been up to scratch. His fielding is ordinary as well and, as such, must go.
Bell - obviously talented but has flaws in his technique and did not pick Warne. Should be maintained as an investment in the future but no. 4 in an Ashes series is not his spot.
Jones - horrible with the gloves testerday but apparently a better bat than his competitors. His errors with the gloves will continue as his technique is so dodgy and, as such, England cannot afford to retain him. Replace with abetter keeper.
Giles - Aus have little respect for him and I cannot see him even holding up an end on a good wicket. Play him where there is potential turn but otherwise he should be replaced by a batsman.
Hoggard - very ordinary in this match in largely favourable conditions. Inaccurate bowling at around 80 mph just wont cut it against this Aus team. Despite taking his wicket, being made to bowl 2 feet outside the off-stump to Clarke was embarrassing. Given his form in SA, Id give him another game but unless he regains his nip, he'll prove expensive as the series wears on.
Anyway, they're my thoughts. Whilst the English selectors, in particular, have cause to panic, Gillespie and Jones are the only 2 that are automatic exclusions for the next match barring vastly improved performances in the remainder of this game.
King_Ponting
International Regular
Gillespie, jones and giles IMOsocial said:
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
I like Pieterson's attitude. The way he stood up and stared Brett Lee down after getting hit on the chest, that shows ticker. And his game is a good watch too.
FaaipDeOiad
Hall of Fame Member
Giles won't get dropped. Fletcher and Vaughan have both said he's going to be important in the series outcome, and he does offer variation for England. The problem is he isn't simply going to be seen off if the pitch isn't taking turn by Australia, who are determined to target him. Obviously when the pitch is taking turn he becomes an offensive option, but as social said he's going to struggle to play the role he usually plays effectively for England on non-turners, which is holding up an end and frustrating the right-handers with a negative line. I still think he's quite capable of picking up the odd wicket against some of the Australian batsmen who are prone to frustration, but quality players of spin like Clarke, Katich and Martyn are obviously not going to struggle against him at all, especially if they hit him off his line. Also, two of the players who are prone to being frustrated out are left-handers, in Gilchrist and Hayden, and Giles doesn't really seem to bowl to them very well.
He's not going to get dropped, but he is a major weak point I think.
He's not going to get dropped, but he is a major weak point I think.
age_master
Hall of Fame Member
FaaipDeOiad said:
definatley, a couple of the pitches may turn a little for him though on those pitches Macgill will probably join Warne for a double dose of leggies
age_master
Hall of Fame Member
his keeping is truely terrible, for the mere10 extra he may average with the bat he is nowhere near worth itsocial said:
age_master
Hall of Fame Member
If rudi said he wasn't sure, or if he didn't pick it up good on himTop_Cat said:
nick-o
State 12th Man
social said:
Given current England selection policies, I can't see anyone being dropped for the second test, and I think that is entirely the right policy.
Firstly, I can't see any way that Vaughn will give a psychological victory to the aussies on top of losing the test -- and giving the impression that people have been shown up, exposed or taken apart would be exactly that. Unless someone is injured, I'm sure the same team will be retained to prevent any pyschological point scoring.
Secondly, hopefully, the days when wholesale team changes were made in panic reaction to a sub-standard performance are over. That kind of thing was always a hallmark of the England selectors in the past, but recent history suggests the current thinking is to look forward, pick the guys we think will be the best over the next year or two,and avoid dropping people in a panic.
Thridly, these calls for people to be dropped are so fickle. Tresc-o isn't on your list here, altho after the first innings how many people were calling for him to be dropped down the order or dropped altogether. One gutsy innings and suddenly his place is secure again. I think it's the same for the others you mention.
Shane Warne
Banned
Top_Cat said:
Last edited:
I agree with you and that is why I nominated a no. of people as being "vulnerable" rather than advocating their axing on the back of one performance. After all, England did not get to no. 2 in the world by panicking at the selection table and the players do deserve loyalty.nick-o said:
However, the case of Jones is different. England has 3 world class pacemen (Harmy, Flintoff and Jones) and it is simply unacceptable to have someone little better than a stopper in the most important "fielding" position.
Likewise, Giles may not have the ability to perform a role central to his selection - namely, bowling long economical spells. Unlike other countries, Aus does not appear content to let him bowl darts at leg stump whilst the fast men recuperate. In fact, they seem to relish the prospect of milking this approach for easy runs. However, on aturning wicket he could still prove to be a handful.
You will notice that I have not mentioned Tresco. IMO, his record and ability makes him a "certainty" at present. Like some others, his technique isnt all that flash but history would say that big scores (scored at a good rate) are not out of the question.