ODI ATG XIs

[mr_mister]

Hayden overrated in ODIs imo

 

[harsh.ag]

Gilly
Waugh
Ponting
Bevan
Symonds
Hussey
Watson

Love Deano but I can't leave out the others. Having those finishers is just too h4x.

 

[Cow]

Roy and Hales are the atg opening partnership

 

[jimmy101]

Kenya ATG XI

Kenny Otenio +
Ravi Shah
Steve Tikolo *
Maurice Odumbe
Hitesh Modi
Collins Obuya
Thomas Odoyo
Asif Karim
Jimmy Kamande
Peter Ongondo
Martin Suji

Probably too many bowlers, as Odoyo is a weak 7, but I can literally only find 8-9 players who have scored an international 50 against a non minnow. Besides Odoyo was basically their Constantine to Tikolos Headley so he gets to play as an AR.

Sujis average was terrible but he had to hold the attack on his shoulders when they were facing the toughest batting teams. Kamande and Ongondo pick themselves with a decent record in the time before Kenya only ever played minnows, but neither did much in the early years of their career

Karim soley in for his OP spell against Australia in 03

Obuya gets in on the back of one awesome innings against aus and that famous spell against SL with the ball, both in WCs. Modi was semi reliable during their golden period, good for a start.

Otenio, Tikolo and Odumbe put up some decent scores in the 96, 99, 03 world cups. All scored a fifty in each and Tikolo of course got 2 each in his first 4 WCs


This entire team probably played together in the early 2000s. Certainly could back them to beat most of the current minnows

Nice. Kamande should be higher up the order, probably at no. 7. Tanmay Mishra deserves a spot IMO, possibly even Alex Obanda, as both batsmen average over 30 for Kenya in ODIs (more than Tikolo!).

Maurice Ouma wouldn't be a million miles away from making this side. I also think fast-bowlers such as Joseph Angara & Mohammad Sheikh would be needed to spice up the attack a little.

 

[Bolo]

Gilly
Waugh
Ponting
Bevan
Symonds
Hussey
Watson

Love Deano but I can't leave out the others. Having those finishers is just too h4x.

Watson was the type of bat who needed to build an innings. Kinda a prototype Rohit. Great stats as an opener and mediocre otherwise.

 

[ankitj]

Gilly
Waugh
Ponting
Bevan
Symonds
Hussey
Watson

Love Deano but I can't leave out the others. Having those finishers is just too h4x.

Jones IMO is second only to Bevan among ODI batsmen of Australia

 

[stephen]

Watson played less than a hundred matches as opener. If he gets picked as opener it's purely based on his bowling. With Symonds in the ATG Australia side I don't think Watson is all that necessary. Certainly not enough to displace Waugh or Hayden.

Hayden was about on a par with Waugh as an opener. He felt like a continuation after Waugh was moved on. Waugh had more strings to his bow than Hayden since he could bowl. Both were excellent fielders. Hayden's purple patch which was kicked off by being dropped while playing for his ODI spot was immense. He utterly annihilated everyone in the 07 world cup, setting two Australian world cup records in the first couple of games (fastest hundred in a world cup and largest hundred in a world cup). Waugh was more consistent throughout his career and largely played against tougher bowling. And Waugh was beautiful to watch bat. His driving was exquisite at times. Hayden was enjoyable to watch for his sheer brutality but Waugh just oozed class. I could watch him bat all day.

Most aesthetically pleasing looking batsmen:
Waugh
Lara
Richardson (mostly for that cover drive on one knee)
Martyn
Ponting (pull shot)
de Silva

 

[Bolo]

Not that I think its that relevant, but you seem to- Symonds has 5 wickets in 18 WC games and waugh has 5 in 22. Horrible ER as well.

Also worth noting for people picking teams based heavily on wc performances that symonds averages 100 in WC with the bat, with an average of infinity in finals and semi finals.

 

[stephen]

Jones IMO is second only to Bevan among ODI batsmen of Australia

He was pretty good. I'd suggest Ponting might have been better though.

 

[stephen]

Not that I think its that relevant, but you seem to- Symonds has 5 wickets in 18 WC games and waugh has 5 in 22. Horrible ER as well.

Also worth noting for people picking teams based heavily on wc performances that symonds averages 100 in WC with the bat, with an average of infinity in finals and semi finals.

Symonds was a beast in world cups. Largely built his reputation around them. But I didn't realise how huge his average was in WCs. His hundred vs Pakistan was one of the finest ODI innings' you'll ever see. Spanked Wasim, Shaoib and Waqar all over the park. Was the closest Australia came to a loss in that World Cup.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

The main difference between the early 90s and the late 90s was that more ODIs were played. There wasn't much of a statistical difference.

Lara averaged more in the late 90s but that corresponds with him getting more into his peak years.

No doubt Lara was a great and he easily makes the WI first XI, but he was not significantly better than M Waugh long term. He was probably a fraction better but he wasn't clearly the second best opener of all time and I'd probably take M Waugh as an opener over him because Waugh played a significantly higher proportion of his career there and their averages and strike rates are within the margin of error of each other.

I'd take Lara at 3 over Waugh though and it's pretty close between them unless you cherry pick. Waugh might edge ahead due to his bowling and fielding but Lara was no slouch in the field either.

M.Waugh at number 3
34 innings , 37.4 AVG , 74 SR

Lara
106 innings , 45.85 AVG , 86 SR

Pretty close . Indeed.

 

[sunilz]

Symonds was a beast in world cups. Largely built his reputation around them. But I didn't realise how huge his average was in WCs. His hundred vs Pakistan was one of the finest ODI innings' you'll ever see. Spanked Wasim and Waqar all over the park. Was the closest Australia came to a loss in that World Cup.

Match against NZ and ENG were closer.

 

[harsh.ag]

Watson was the type of bat who needed to build an innings. Kinda a prototype Rohit. Great stats as an opener and mediocre otherwise.

Could swap Watson and Gilly, no problem.

 

[stephen]

M.Waugh at number 3
34 innings , 37.4 AVG , 74 SR

Lara
106 innings , 45.85 AVG , 86 SR

Pretty close . Indeed.

Yeah I meant it was pretty close overall. You have to cherry pick to make Lara look better overall. Lara spent a significant amount of time batting 4 and 5 which drags his career stats down. He was more suited to the top order, similarly to Waugh.

Waugh only batted 3 34 times and only at the beginning of his career. He got better later in his career. Like his brother he was probably picked a bit too young. Lara was more of a prodigy and seemed to peak more in his younger years. Certainly his Sydney test innings sticks in my memory like it was yesterday.

 

[Bolo]

Could swap Watson and Gilly, no problem.

I generally prefer to pick players in proven roles, but i think this combo would almost certainly be more successful. No way do I see Gilly failing as a late innings power hitter, and might have done it better than anyone other than AB because of how quickly he could tee off.

I prefer to just drop waugh for Jones though. Fewer unknowns and a nore varied opening combo.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Yeah I meant it was pretty close overall. You have to cherry pick to make Lara look better overall. Lara spent a significant amount of time batting 4 and 5 which drags his career stats down. He was more suited to the top order, similarly to Waugh.

Waugh only batted 3 34 times and only at the beginning of his career. He got better later in his career. Like his brother he was probably picked a bit too young. Lara was more of a prodigy and seemed to peak more in his younger years. Certainly his Sydney test innings sticks in my memory like it was yesterday.

Lara and Waugh were better at Top Order. Hence the top order stats comparison.

opening stats almost similar
Except , Waugh played longer , and Lara played in low and slow scoring era of early 90s .

Aprox stats for 1-3 positions
Lara 46 at 81/82 150 plus innings
Waugh 42 at 75 175 innings
Lara easily better here.

For a 6 year period 1993 - 1998 Lara consistently topped ICC rankings.
Easily the best Batsman in the world for the period. Waugh never came close to being world's best.


Best Batsmen in the world 1992-1997

Lara 4867 runs , 49.66 AVG , 79.5 SR

Bevan. 2002 , 55.6 at 74.34
Anwar 3950 , 41.6 at 82
M.Waugh 4136 , 40.6 at 76.8
De Silva 4579 , 40.5 at 83.6
Sachin. 4912 , 39.3 at 81.8
Azhar 4327 , 39.3 at 75.5

Consistently topping ICC rankings for 6yrs is a phenomenal achievement. That too when Sachin and Bevan performing at their best.

 

[Cow]

Horrific strike rates.

 

[Burgey]

Watson was the type of bat who needed to build an innings. Kinda a prototype Rohit. Great stats as an opener and mediocre otherwise.

I get the impression Watson is a bit over hyped in ODIs, much as Lee is. Still certainly belongs in the discussion re opening in an Australian AT side though.

 

[Bolo]

I get the impression Watson is a bit over hyped in ODIs, much as Lee is. Still certainly belongs in the discussion re opening in an Australian AT side though.

Likely.

There are probably 10 or 15 openers worldwide with a claim to being the best after Tenduklar. I reckon he's one of them, although I can think of good reason to disagree. His propensity for injury makes him a whole lot less valuable than his stats in either discipline (although more particularly bowling).

Anyway, i dont like the idea of part timers bowling 10 overs. And he's about the only AR option aus have. So I'd stick him in the team even if I thought a fair bit less of his batting. He'd be my third pick in an aus side after Mcgrath and gilly even though I dont think he's the third best player.

And if he's in the team, i reckon he has to open.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Why not?
If it is unavoidable that carefully picking only 11/4000 is required to prove that my boy is better than your boy, then I say that 11/4000 is the correct, ideal, sample size.

And it gives a golden opportunity to bring down a player or a nation you hate if the player or nation has performed poorly in this 0.275% sample size.

I don't really hate any player, or for that matter any nation; at least not hate them enough to resort to these kinds of shenanigans.
What I want is something that is very simple, very basic: I want everyone else to agree with me - become a fellow believer - that my boy is better than those other boys.

You ****s are falling right into Burgey's trap and giving him exactly the response he wants btw

You know he doesn't seriously think a player should be solely rated on their performance in a WC final right?