Murali Karthik

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

.the 2 worst teams in history

Unfair to say that. It's not like they've been playing for decade upon decade. They started for all intents and purposes within a decade or so. I can't be bothered to look up stats, but from memory, New Zealand started its Test career poorly too.

So did the West Indies and Sri Lanaka.

 

[badgerhair]

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thats the difference most people expect him to be that since he is from the sub continent .. and my opinion is unbiased being from new zealand..

Well, some people just live up to expectations, don't they?

Murali Karthik has sucked rocks just about every time he's bowled outside India, although he's looked reasonably OK at home.

If you don't like the suggestion that he's a standard Indian spinner, try standard English spinner: bowls vaguely OK in the sub-continent but is totally carp anywhere else.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[marc71178]

The problem with Vettori is that he is not an attacking spinner, he usually bowls defensively because our pace bowlers get smacked around.

He also doesn't have the pitches to bowl on really does he.

Similarly to Giles (and Tufnell before him)

I firmly believe that all 3 would have far better records if they were playing so much on Asian wickets.

 

[Tim]

Well its like the opposite in NZ, the seamers get good averages because the conditions suit them.
I guess though, that Tuffey proved he could bowl well on Sub-continent pitches...Kumble in all of his years as a test player has largely flopped outside of India.

Vettori will probably never get his average below 30 simply because he just won't get the opportunities to bowl often enough in NZ...and its not like you have a tour to the sub-continent every year.

 

[marc71178]

Are the conditions in NZ really that helpful to spinners then?

I would have said they're about as close to English conditions as you can get in the World?

 

[Salamuddin]

Badgerhair, a few corrections :

Murali Karthik has actually done quite well on tours abroad for India.

10 wickets in 2 tests for India A in South Africa in 2002 (a performance which prompted the South African A team coach to enquire why he was not playing test cricket).

14 wickets at an average of 30 on this years India A tour to the West Indies.

16 wickets in 2 tests for India A on their tour of West Indies in 1999.

Ok so he had a bad tour to England this summer -- but those performances above certainly rubbish your claim that he's only a performer on subcontinental tracks.

Having seen him bowl, a number of times I rate him to be much more dangerous than Ray Price. and Price certainly troubled many of the Australian batsmen.

 

[lord_of_darkness]

Are the conditions in NZ really that helpful to spinners then?

NOT AT ALL marc..most days in nz are cloudy and windy.. suiting the fast bowlers.. and since most of the pitches below senior level ( 18+ ppl ) are artificial.. most upcoming spinners lost their confidence because you dont much turn at all..if your a good natural turner of the ball you will get some good turns here and there..
But mainly have to rely on flight.. and since that could be hard with wind and all .. people lose their confidence getting hit..
Thats mainly what ive seen for all spinners.. they lose their confidence gradually and become med pacers , batsmen or just give up overall of frustration..

There are a few spinners like me.. who still keep trying hard and since they will be bowling spin for quite a long time.. they know and realize that bad times come because conditions dont favour us spinners AT ALL.. we know which line to attack etc after so much time.. i know some good spinners.. but i hope they carry on like i do..

But for a spinner in NZ i have been lucky with skill to be going so well ( looking at my currrent record nd overall ) hopefully i go through well..!

 

[Tim]

Generally at Club level, a captain will not want to risk bowling a spinner because a) he'll probably be targeted for some tap & b) because his seamers are probably taking the wickets.

I read an article where apparently at the NZ Academy they were encouraging the Captains to give their spinners a go regardless of what the situation was.

 

[marc71178]

I read an article where apparently at the NZ Academy they were encouraging the Captains to give their spinners a go regardless of what the situation was.

Is Chris Hinton a coach there?!

 

[Richard]

Badgerhair, a few corrections :

Murali Karthik has actually done quite well on tours abroad for India.

10 wickets in 2 tests for India A in South Africa in 2002 (a performance which prompted the South African A team coach to enquire why he was not playing test cricket).

14 wickets at an average of 30 on this years India A tour to the West Indies.

16 wickets in 2 tests for India A on their tour of West Indies in 1999.

Ok so he had a bad tour to England this summer -- but those performances above certainly rubbish your claim that he's only a performer on subcontinental tracks.

Having seen him bowl, a number of times I rate him to be much more dangerous than Ray Price. and Price certainly troubled many of the Australian batsmen.

What do a couple of tours to West Indies mean any more than home series? Conditions in India and West Indies are almost identical.

 

[Richard]

Are the conditions in NZ really that helpful to spinners then?

I would have said they're about as close to English conditions as you can get in the World?

New Zealand's a bit closer to the Equator than England is, but generally overhead conditions are very similar. In fact, in recent years they've been far more extreme in New Zealand. Anyway, Wellington's more like north-west Scotland than anywhere else.

 

[Tom Halsey]

14 wickets at an average of 30 on this years India A tour to the West Indies.

An average of 30 is hardly world class...and it was against the West Indies second string...

 

[lord_of_darkness]

oh god just wait until karthik makes the indian team for touring overseas.. and you will see his change ..

By the way i have talked to other pretty good spinners and most of their attitudes currently are like.. "im just playing cricket for fun and dont want it to get any serious" ie they are looking to quit probably after a few years

i guess thats were most of the upcoming people go aswell..

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Conditions in India and West Indies are almost identical.

I beg to differ. For some reason people seem to think that the West Indian pitches are good for spinners. Not sure why. Spinners haven't exactly dominated here in the recent past. Basically the West Indian pitches are substandard and pretty crappy (with the exception of Kensington Oval and sometimes Sabina Park... Grenada also has an excellent facility1), but they don't assist the spinners anywhere near as much as in India.

 

[lord_of_darkness]

but they are alright because they breed top quality seamers.. or i think that just comes from birth the pace and the aggression and the height :P

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

but they are alright because they breed top quality seamers.. or i think that just comes from birth the pace and the aggression and the height :P

They were really poor this year v Australia. It was like we were trying our best to help Australia beat us. We didn't give our bowlers anything to work with.

Only very recently have we started to produce some seamers again who are potententially top quality.

 

[marc71178]

I beg to differ. For some reason people seem to think that the West Indian pitches are good for spinners.

I've been wonderig this very same point.

Who was the last spinner to really do well in a series in the West Indies?

 

[masterblaster]

Lance Gibbs?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I've been wonderig this very same point.

Who was the last spinner to really do well in a series in the West Indies?

Dinanath Ramnarine - 20 wickets in 5 Tests v South Africa. It all comes back to Ramnarine...

 

[NikhilN]

he is not good at test cricket