Most galling Ashes loss

[Furball]

It makes a pleasant change to see the 2010/11 ashes win given some serious credit instead of being written off due to the state of the Australian team. Three innings victories in Australia was just extraordinary, and I don't recall anyone doing that to them even at the darkest points in their history. Whether I'd place clear daylight between it and the 2005 side is questionable, but I think that was discussed on CW even before the subsequent implosion, and it is only an opinion, so who cares really. I can only agree with those who've pointed out that Fred and Jones give the 2005 side a dimension that might just give it the edge, despite the clear superiority of Swann, Prior, Cook (in that series, anyway) and Bell over their 2005 counterparts. Choosing a composite team is hard because picking the best bowlers probably omits one of the tall brigade, so we end up with Hoggard and Anderson doing similar jobs without Tremlett or Harmison doing their thing.

I'm going to knock this on the head; the closest comparison is Anderson and Flintoff. Hoggard in 2005, other than his Oval heroics largely played the part of Hayden Kryptonite with the new ball. There were a few Tests where he had a burst with the new ball then spent the rest of the innings fielding; Anderson by contrast was the workhorse of the 2010/11 side that the captain kept turning to.

 

[Furball]

As for the combined XI. Straight up disagree, given that ignoring captaincy (and if we pick on captaincy Vaughan gets in ahead of Strauss) the Strauss of 2010-11 wouldn't get in ahead of either Trescothick or the Strauss of 05. Strauss performed better in the series, so picking a combined XI depends on whether you go on series output alone or overall quality. A similar question exists for Pietersen, and I would probably argue that Pietersen circa 05-09 was a better player than afterwards, but he played better innings later in his career. Anyhow, I'll give it a shot.

Trescothick
Cook
Trott
Pietersen (circa 05)
Bell (circa 10-11)
Flintoff
Prior +
Swann
Anderson
Jones
Hoggard/Harmison/Bresnan/Tremlett

Actually when I did a mental comparison I was going with "which of the 2005 players would I pick to improve the team that went to number 1?", so I was going to express amazement that there was no Broad but then again he played virtually no part in 2010/11.

I actually agree with you about Pietersen; I always felt he batted worse the more responsible he tried to be and I preferred him as the brash, bombastic character that just waltzed in to the middle and smashed it. I'll probably give you Strauss of 05 as well.

 

[greg]

Actually when I did a mental comparison I was going with "which of the 2005 players would I pick to improve the team that went to number 1?", so I was going to express amazement that there was no Broad but then again he played virtually no part in 2010/11.

I actually agree with you about Pietersen; I always felt he batted worse the more responsible he tried to be and I preferred him as the brash, bombastic character that just waltzed in to the middle and smashed it. I'll probably give you Strauss of 05 as well.

The 2010/11 team was the only time in my life that one has got the impression from an England team of remorseless dominance. The regular feeling that a partnership would never be broken, or if it was it would never lead to a collapse of wickets but would simply be followed by another unbreakable partnership. The 2005 team was different, it was never remorseless and was always a bit on edge, a bit risky. Partly that was the players, partly the way they played and also the fact that the team was a little bit unbalanced IMO, with not quite the batting strength one would like. And heavily dependent on Flintoff performing with the bat. As was ultimately shown up in 2006/7. The 2005 team (and in the couple of years beforehand) was successful because it won the key moments. The 2010/11 team didn't need key moments because they were invariably too far ahead anyway.

 

[smash84]

From a neutral perspective, '05 was by far the most thrilling series to follow.

Indeed

 

[wpdavid]

I'm going to knock this on the head; the closest comparison is Anderson and Flintoff. Hoggard in 2005, other than his Oval heroics largely played the part of Hayden Kryptonite with the new ball. There were a few Tests where he had a burst with the new ball then spent the rest of the innings fielding; Anderson by contrast was the workhorse of the 2010/11 side that the captain kept turning to.

Yes. I agree with most of that. What I meant was that Anderson and Hoggard bring similar skill-sets to the team, irrespective of how their captains used them. Perhaps Jimmy's workload in 2010/11 compared to Hoggard five years earlier simply means he's the better of the two bowlers.


And looking at your next post, I was pleased to see Strauss of 2005 get a mention. I've long argued that his ton at The Oval was one of the finest I've seen from an England player, given the occasion, the strength of the opposition and the collapse of most of those around him.

 

[Stapel]

And looking at your next post, I was pleased to see Strauss of 2005 get a mention. I've long argued that his ton at The Oval was one of the finest I've seen from an England player, given the occasion, the strength of the opposition and the collapse of most of those around him.

Good call.

Another massively underrated performance is Ashley Giles' batting in that match. Especially his 2nd innings. He came in at 9, being 200 runs ahead with 50+ overs left in the day. Not a bad moment to make your career best score.

 

[Furball]

And looking at your next post, I was pleased to see Strauss of 2005 get a mention. I've long argued that his ton at The Oval was one of the finest I've seen from an England player, given the occasion, the strength of the opposition and the collapse of most of those around him.

Good call. Probably one of the most under-appreciated tons of recent times given KP's heroics on day 5 but where England would've been without Strauss' ton, particularly given the position Australia had gotten themselves into before light-related shenanigans on day 4, doesn't bear thinking about.

 

[LegionOfBrad]

2010-11 was won with 517-1. The sight of the empty Gabba was tremendous.

Barring Mitch going godmode at Perth they were never even close.

I still remember waking up to that scoreline. Absolutely hilarious.

 

[Adders]

2010-11 was won with 517-1. The sight of the empty Gabba was tremendous.

Barring Mitch going godmode at Perth they were never even close

I still remember waking up to that scoreline. Absolutely hilarious.

Yep, but i think an empty MCG after tea on boxing day tops it