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Kapil vs Kohli

B

Bolo.

International Vice-Captain
Godard said:
Boss, I have given you stats based on your chosen measure, and proved it wrong to declare 2016-20 as easier than 2010-15. Please give reason, rather than repeating verbatim, that because of some great reason Kohli’s peak was in easier era, and this stats reason doesn’t work.
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You haven't given the stats so much as list a few players averages. Overall stats are:

2010-20157817479253513751132240767731.035.17
2016-2020550522721255803794128633232.215.36

Not a huge difference between eras, but era adjusted AB is 72@114 SR vs 77@99 for Kohli.

Kohli would be better on something like a 3 year peak- picking between their peaks is likely to be an exercise in confirmation bias.
 
Pap Finn Keighl

Pap Finn Keighl

International Debutant
Bolo. said:
You haven't given the stats so much as list a few players averages. Overall stats are:

2010-20157817479253513751132240767731.035.17
2016-2020550522721255803794128633232.215.36

Not a huge difference between eras, but era adjusted AB is 72@114 SR vs 77@99 for Kohli.

Kohli would be better on something like a 3 year peak- picking between their peaks is likely to be an exercise in confirmation bias.
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Top batsmen making maximum benefit of easier conditions wouldn't be reflected in overall era avg.
 
Pap Finn Keighl

Pap Finn Keighl

International Debutant
Godard said:
Take any no of matches in Deviliers career close to 180 or more during which he averaged 60. Inside Devilliers career: 2008-18, Kohli averaged 60 for 216 matches. Now you can say, Kohli’s average got boosted from 2016-8. Why didn’t the same happen for ABD? Because 2016-18 was the last leg of his career. But I can say this at the start of 2008-18, Kohli was a debutant also, while by that time ABD has played for 3 years. Find me any series of 180 matches or more from 2005-18 during which ABD has averaged 60, because he has played 228 matches. In Kohli’s career, he has averaged 60 for 242/268 matches, a much higher proportion than ABD’s of 169/228. Also if you say Kohli played more matches at this period of 2008-28 than ABD(and generally more matches at his peak)and hence scored more, playing more matches per year also causes higher workload. It is easier to maintain form as well as peak during your peak playing lesser matches per year, so you can conserve your energy. So the fact Kohli played more and averaged the same in his peak and this time period of 2008-18, is a point to him.
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AB averages 60 for his entire career after era adjustment.
 
B

Bolo.

International Vice-Captain
Pap Finn Keighl said:
AB averages 60 for his entire career after era adjustment.
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Using your patented system of picking a number you like and declaring it an era adustment, that sounds plausible.

Adjusted to 2016-2020, he averages 56.

His average moves up less than half a point adjusting it to Kohli's entire career.
 
G

Godard

U19 Vice-Captain
Bolo. said:
You haven't given the stats so much as list a few players averages. Overall stats are:

2010-20157817479253513751132240767731.035.17
2016-2020550522721255803794128633232.215.36

Not a huge difference between eras, but era adjusted AB is 72@114 SR vs 77@99 for Kohli.

Kohli would be better on something like a 3 year peak- picking between their peaks is likely to be an exercise in confirmation bias.
Click to expand...
That’s why I chose the portion how
Kohli played from 2008-18, his career in the time ABD was still playing. I picked common years, so it was possible to compare both. For this both average 60, just that Kohli averages for nearly 50 matches, scoring 2,500 runs more. And you may say that Kohli really peaked in 2016-18, and Devilliers couldn’t be excepted to capitalise on this supposedly easier batting era, but that is evened by that fact Kohli was a debutant and early player 2008-10, and 2009 and 10 were years of AB’s peak, unfair to use to compare him to a debutant at that time. Hence no need for subjective era adjustments in comparison of 2008-18, on basis Kohli beats AB in run accumulation, just as AB beats him in SR. And note it is harder to maintain averages over more number of matches, something that should be used in Kohli’s favour in this comparison, not against him
 
Pap Finn Keighl

Pap Finn Keighl

International Debutant
Bolo. said:
Using your patented system of picking a number you like and declaring it an era adustment, that sounds plausible.

Adjusted to 2016-2020, he averages 56.

His average moves up less than half a point adjusting it to Kohli's entire career.
Click to expand...
Thats because your method is wrong
 
Pap Finn Keighl

Pap Finn Keighl

International Debutant
Godard said:
That’s why I chose the portion how
Kohli played from 2008-18, his career in the time ABD was still playing. I picked common years, so it was possible to compare both. For this both average 60, just that Kohli averages for nearly 50 matches, scoring 2,500 runs more. And you may say that Kohli really peaked in 2016-18, and Devilliers couldn’t be excepted to capitalise on this supposedly easier batting era, but that is evened by that fact Kohli was a debutant and early player 2008-10, and 2009 and 10 were years of AB’s peak, unfair to use to compare him to a debutant at that time. Hence no need for subjective era adjustments in comparison of 2008-18, on basis Kohli beats AB in run accumulation, just as AB beats him in SR. And note it is harder to maintain averages over more number of matches, something that should be used in Kohli’s favour in this comparison, not against him
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Wait a minute
Nobody stopped Kohli from scoring quickly.. Just that he was incapable to do so.
On the other hand, it was Impossible to AB to play for India.. Its not his fault ( and we dont know, how would that extra matches effect on his stats.. There is a good chance of improving the stats )
 
G

Godard

U19 Vice-Captain
Pap Finn Keighl said:
Wait a minute
Nobody stopped Kohli from scoring quickly.. Just that he was incapable to do so.
On the other hand, it was Impossible to AB to play for India.. Its not his fault ( and we dont know, how would that extra matches effect on his stats.. There is a good chance of improving the stats )
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AB is clearly a more aggressive player, but if you think Kohli was incapable of scoring quickly, that is completely wrong. Kohli might not be one of the most aggressive players ever, but he has a good SR, one that can’t ever be used as a negative point against him, rather it is AB’s phenomenal Sr that is a point in AB’s favour, not that Kohli’s SR is very low or anything. Do the following scores(all in victories) indicate Kohli was incapable of scoring quickly?:
133(86)
100(52)
115(66)
131(96)
140(107)
129(96) etc

Kohli has instrumental in chasing down mammoth scores more than any other player ever. If I would have to chase down 350 in 50 overs or 300 in 40 overs, then I would pick Kohli over any other player, and all the stats in the world support that. And this is a simple fact: maintaining an average of 60 over 216 matches is tougher than over 159 matches. The fact that Kohli played more matches in these years, logically means he would less time to conserve his energy, and have to manage a bigger workload. Rather than a good chance of improving his stats, the opposite would be more likely for AB(like any other human) if he played more matches, since he would have to manage more workload. I agree AB is faster than Kohli, but saying Kohli’s SR was a problem, or that he was incapable of scoring quickly is wrong 100%.
 
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B

Bolo.

International Vice-Captain
Godard said:
That’s why I chose the portion how
Kohli played from 2008-18, his career in the time ABD was still playing. I picked common years, so it was possible to compare both. For this both average 60, just that Kohli averages for nearly 50 matches, scoring 2,500 runs more. And you may say that Kohli really peaked in 2016-18, and Devilliers couldn’t be excepted to capitalise on this supposedly easier batting era, but that is evened by that fact Kohli was a debutant and early player 2008-10, and 2009 and 10 were years of AB’s peak, unfair to use to compare him to a debutant at that time. Hence no need for subjective era adjustments in comparison of 2008-18, on basis Kohli beats AB in run accumulation, just as AB beats him in SR. And note it is harder to maintain averages over more number of matches, something that should be used in Kohli’s favour in this comparison, not against him
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You shouldn't trust overlapping periods like this. People peak at different times. But if you are looking at the overlap, AB is clearly ahead.

Kohli's SR is fine. AB's is 15 points higher... Kohli is closer to Kallis than AB. And AB averages a few runs more as well.

Playing for a team that plays extra games could be a way to differentiate between very comparable players. But in this period they are not particularly comparable.
 
G

Godard

U19 Vice-Captain
Kohli and AB average exactly the same in this period(unless you consider less than 0.6 difference in averages anything more than negligible)Kohli beats AB in run accumulation, since he averaged the same in 47 more matches, something which is tougher to do, and AB beats him in SR. I never alleged Kohli had a higher SR, but that his SR was perfectly good. Comparing Kohli to Kallis in ODIs is crazy. Kallis’s average is 44 and SR 72. No amount of era revision would make me Kallis near Kohli. AB at this overlap might be slightly ahead, but we also excluding Deviliers ordinary years pre 2008. Overall they are equal.
 
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