Jonbrooks chucking Megathread

[Migara]

Any one who has played cricket knows they cannot bowl the doosra without using the force of the elbow. I don't have issue with the carrom ball but the doosra has to be outlawed. No two ways about it.

Anyone who played cricket knows doosra is difficult to bowl in first place. And if you don't know, people with Ehlers-Danlos syndrome (hypermobility) bowl doosras as their stock balls with gun barrel straight arms.

 

[honestbharani]

You would think anyone with any kind of knowledge of how the human body works will know that you cannot "bowl" a ball in cricket without being aided by force through your shoulders, elbow and wrists and that it is impossible to "bowl" any kind of ball in cricket without using the third "force".. But then again, its Praters.

 

[Migara]

Here is the paper: An evaluation of biomechanical measures of bowling action legality in cricket. - PubMed - NCBI

We found that bowlers generally bowled within a change in elbow extension angle of 15.5 degrees.

The study has omitted chuckers under current law. The better methodology would have been to compare groups of chucker, bent arm legal bowlers and straight arm bowlers, and finally visual comparison.

If chuckers bowl with low angular velocities, then the parameter would be down the drain.

 

[Migara]

Found this image from one of the co-authors in question, Ferdinand. This could lead to a substantial discussion.

Anyone have $41 to spare for the paper?

The number of outliers in non suspect groups is mind boggling.

 

[harsh.ag]

The number of outliers in non suspect groups is mind boggling.

It's not the number of outliers, but something else. Can't be outlier values either, since the 344 and 130 don't make sense. Total number of bowlers studied was 83.

 

[Pratters]

You would think anyone with any kind of knowledge of how the human body works will know that you cannot "bowl" a ball in cricket without being aided by force through your shoulders, elbow and wrists and that it is impossible to "bowl" any kind of ball in cricket without using the third "force".. But then again, its Praters.

Sure. This topic is as simple as that. Then again, it's honestbharani.

 

[Pratters]

No, its understanding facts that bothers him... I guess he read the word velocity in a google search about this topic and then kept repeating it in this thread. Apparently, the very posts he liked, which show clearly that elbows are flexed by all bowlers with "clean" actions, went over his head.

Yeah you can read what I search on Google and think for me. Thanks.

 

[Pratters]

Holding and Bedi... Classic cases of "everything was better in my day" tools with respect to bowling actions...

Haha.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

It's not the number of outliers, but something else. Can't be outlier values either, since the 344 and 130 don't make sense. Total number of bowlers studied was 83.

Probably the labeling of a particular delivery.

 

[cnerd123]

You would think anyone with any kind of knowledge of how the human body works will know that you cannot "bowl" a ball in cricket without being aided by force through your shoulders, elbow and wrists and that it is impossible to "bowl" any kind of ball in cricket without using the third "force".. But then again, its Praters.

It's shocking how he refuses to accept this. I dont believe Pratters has ever actually watched a slow motion clip of a bowling action, let alone try to bowl a cricket ball. The arm has to straighten. Dale Steyn himself has an extremely noticeable straightening; I think we talked about here on CW once about how his effort balls might actually be exceeding the current 15 degree rule and should be tested.

Offspinners have it worse because we need to rotate our arms too in order to impart spin, and that causes more straightening that you would see in a legspinner or quick bowler. I think this is why its always the offspinners getting called up for dodgy actions.

 

[honestbharani]

Sure. This topic is as simple as that. Then again, it's honestbharani.

Of course it is simple if you can actually understand the game.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

I remember watching dale steyn for the first time in like 2004 or something and my impression as a 10 year old was that he chucked tbh

 

[honestbharani]

It's shocking how he refuses to accept this. I dont believe Pratters has ever actually watched a slow motion clip of a bowling action, let alone try to bowl a cricket ball. The arm has to straighten. Dale Steyn himself has an extremely noticeable straightening; I think we talked about here on CW once about how his effort balls might actually be exceeding the current 15 degree rule and should be tested.

Offspinners have it worse because we need to rotate our arms too in order to impart spin, and that causes more straightening that you would see in a legspinner or quick bowler. I think this is why its always the offspinners getting called up for dodgy actions.

There is the front on and side on actions angle too. A side on action always makes you look like you are having a lesser flex at your elbow than a total front on action that most off spinners have as well. Leggies mostly have a much more side on action.

 

[TheJediBrah]

It's shocking how he refuses to accept this. I dont believe Pratters has ever actually watched a slow motion clip of a bowling action, let alone try to bowl a cricket ball. The arm has to straighten. Dale Steyn himself has an extremely noticeable straightening; I think we talked about here on CW once about how his effort balls might actually be exceeding the current 15 degree rule and should be tested.

Offspinners have it worse because we need to rotate our arms too in order to impart spin, and that causes more straightening that you would see in a legspinner or quick bowler. I think this is why its always the offspinners getting called up for dodgy actions.

Funny story, I remember as a kid watching Dale Steyn first bowling back in 2006 (?)ish and thinking he was a chucker

his action just looks bad live

edit: ****ing wizard up there^

 

[Pratters]

It's shocking how he refuses to accept this. I dont believe Pratters has ever actually watched a slow motion clip of a bowling action, let alone try to bowl a cricket ball. The arm has to straighten. Dale Steyn himself has an extremely noticeable straightening; I think we talked about here on CW once about how his effort balls might actually be exceeding the current 15 degree rule and should be tested.

Offspinners have it worse because we need to rotate our arms too in order to impart spin, and that causes more straightening that you would see in a legspinner or quick bowler. I think this is why its always the offspinners getting called up for dodgy actions.

There is a difference between delivery of McGrath and bowling during a doosra. You have to resort to insults about me never having seen a slow mo or bowled a cricket ball though. Same line of poor debating skills you showed during the pitch debate. Any one who doesn't agree with you, you just bash them. Dire.

 

[cnerd123]

There is a difference between delivery of McGrath and bowling during a doosra. .

You keep saying this but you never actually bother to explain the difference.

 

[Migara]

Another image from Ferdinand.

So this is how the authors are getting to their assertions. The players with "suspect" actions are bowling under 15 degrees of extension, but have high elbow-extension angular velocity.

This basically nails it. Angular velocity is possibly even poorer than naked eye in finding chuckers. Overlap among groups is extremely large. They are not stating a p value, so the chances are that it is non significant.

 

[Pratters]

I have explained it via the post of Fuller. He has written several posts on it. It is clear to me you have never seen a cricket ball in slow motion now or bowled a ball of cricket now. /postlikezorax.

 

[cnerd123]

There is the front on and side on actions angle too. A side on action always makes you look like you are having a lesser flex at your elbow than a total front on action that most off spinners have as well. Leggies mostly have a much more side on action.

Yea this definitely happens too. The straughtening tends to blend in with the entire body pivoting around the front leg, but stands out more for a chest-on action.

 

[TheJediBrah]

There is a difference between delivery of McGrath and bowling during a doosra. You have to resort to insults about me never having seen a slow mo or bowled a cricket ball though. Same line of poor debating skills you showed during the pitch debate. Any one who doesn't agree with you, you just bash them. Dire.

You could say that about half the posters on this forum tbf

And at least ***** will like every second post you make after abusing you lmao