Is Ricky Ponting a better batsman than Brian Lara?

[MrIncredible]

I didn't want this to become a Tendulkar vs Ponting/Lara debate because- wait for it- the thread was for Ponting vs Lara. Is that hard to understand? And it's obvious that you didn't read the thread because I clearly mentioned that -

If I had one spot remaining in a World 11 side, I would choose Ponting over Lara and Tendulkar,

If I wanted someone to bat for my life, I would choose Tendulkar over Ponting and Lara.

If I just wanted to watch someone bat, I would choose Lara over Ponting and Tendulkar.

If i had one spot in my world Xi i would choose Lara

If I wanted a batsman to bat for my life Steve Waugh

If i just wanted to watch a batsman bat Lara

 

[aussie]

Maybe but that doesn't stop me from saying what I want to say.

Ha no sir. Thats now cricketweb threads go. No thread sticks to topic, it ALWAYS goes awol.

 

[MrIncredible]

No. The fact that he was dropped pretty much proves that he showed glimpses of his potential by scoring runs here of there againts those great bowlers, but was clearly not the finihsed article. At no point since Headingley 2001 has Ponting ever hit a run that his place was questioned.

You cant seriously say that Ponting from 95-99 was better than Lara now?.



Wel Lou Vincent scored a hundred on debut vs McGrath/Warne, Ganga scored back to centuries on his first appearance againts them & Nayan Mongia. Plus you have the example of Mahmood having a superb debut series vs SA in 97/98. We both know where they are now..


Na man. You placing too much emphasis on those runs he scored in the 90s as i said above.

I'd give you that both Tendy/Ponting where better at pace (of the great bowlers) than Lara. But neither where as good againts him vs spin at their peaks or where as destructive as Lara.

Ponting has never had a series comparable to what Lara did to AUS 99 or SRI 2001. That alone makes Punter come out second best to Prince of Port-of-Spain..

This is one of the primary reasons i rate Lara so highly and over the 'others' (not Ponting but Tendy). I dont think ne of the 3 has ever dominated a very good/great bowling attack (for an entire series) except for Lara. Of course this could all be balanced by his dismal series vs the great/very good attacks but Tendy and Ponting have also had their own share of failings vs very good attacks but none have reached Lara's heights. Neither have dominated a great attack to the extent Lara did to Warne/Mcgrath/Gillespie in 99 or a very good attack like: Murali/Vaas in '01 or Pollock/Ntini away in '03.

 

[Ikki]

No. The fact that he was dropped pretty much proves that he showed glimpses of his potential by scoring runs here of there againts those great bowlers, but was clearly not the finihsed article. At no point since Headingley 2001 has Ponting ever hit a run that his place was questioned.

It doesn't matter an iota that he wasn't the finished article.

You cant seriously say that Ponting from 95-99 was better than Lara now?.

That's not even the contention. The point was Ponting of the 90s fared better against the best attacks compared to Lara of the 90s. Pretty easy to grasp.

Wel Lou Vincent scored a hundred on debut vs McGrath/Warne, Ganga scored back to centuries on his first appearance againts them & Nayan Mongia. Plus you have the example of Mahmood having a superb debut series vs SA in 97/98. We both know where they are now..

Did Lou Vincent also score tons against Ambrose/Walsh, Wasim/Waqar, Donald/Pollock and end up with 130+ tests averaging 50+? I didn't think so.

Na man. You placing too much emphasis on those runs he scored in the 90s as i said above.

We are talking about runs scored against the best attacks of the 90s. So all the emphasis should be on those runs.

I'd give you that both Tendy/Ponting where better at pace (of the great bowlers) than Lara. But neither where as good againts him vs spin at their peaks or where as destructive as Lara.

Ponting has never had a series comparable to what Lara did to AUS 99 or SRI 2001. That alone makes Punter come out second best to Prince of Port-of-Spain..

It really doesn't matter because Lara was inconsistent vs the rest of the attacks compared to Ponting with regards to the best attacks in the 90s. That's the discussion. Overall, who did better against all those attacks? Ponting. Goodnight.

Whether that makes him the better batsman is still a question. But the question of "who did better against the best attacks of the 90s" has already been answered and Ponting being an all-time great at the time has absolutely nothing, nada, zilch to do with it.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

For me, the whole Tendulkar/Lara/Ponting thing comes down to the fact that Ponting is the better player of pace by a relatively small margin but clearly worse against spin than the other two (IMO on all counts, of course). Which one I would pick depends on who they were playing against and the surface, but overall, I'd take Lara most often of the three.

 

[Pratters]

For me, the whole Tendulkar/Lara/Ponting thing comes down to the fact that Ponting is the better player of pace by a relatively small margin but clearly worse against spin than the other two (IMO on all counts, of course). Which one I would pick depends on who they were playing against and the surface, but overall, I'd take Lara most often of the three.

Well said champ.

 

[Ikki]

For me, the whole Tendulkar/Lara/Ponting thing comes down to the fact that Ponting is the better player of pace by a relatively small margin but clearly worse against spin than the other two (IMO on all counts, of course). Which one I would pick depends on who they were playing against and the surface, but overall, I'd take Lara most often of the three.

Ponting is severely underrated against spinners. In fact, the one that troubles him most is rather average (Harbhajan) compared to the ones he has succeeded against - guys like Murali, Kumble and Saqlain. In fact, his average against spinners is quite ridiculous, and in matches against these 3 he averages 57, 60 and 77 respectively.

And even though Lara did well against Warne and Murali, he averages 34 in matches against Kumble and 37 in his lone test against Saqlain. Not only that, averages 32 in games involving Vettori.

Also Tendulkar and Lara were troubled by most of the great fast bowlers they faced. So, I am not quite so sure about all that. It is also compounded by the fact that being better at facing pace is easily more beneficial for your team than being good at spin.

 

[Uppercut]

Ponting is severely underrated against spinners. In fact, the one that troubles him most is rather average (Harbhajan) compared to the ones he has succeeded against - guys like Murali, Kumble and Saqlain. In fact, his average against spinners is quite ridiculous, and in matches against these 3 he averages 57, 60 and 77 respectively.

How is it inherently better to get out a lot to Harbhajan than it is to get out a lot to Murali?

Ponting is pretty underrated against spin though. It's mainly in India where they think he can't play the stuff for **** because Kumble and Harbhajan have got the better of him at home. Against any other spinner, and even against those two in Australia, he's as good as they come. Ponting's not weak against spin, he's just weak against Harbhajan.

 

[Ikki]

How is it inherently better to get out a lot to Harbhajan than it is to get out a lot to Murali?

The reason I mentioned Harbhajan is because when people think of Ponting playing spin they immediately think of him instead of all the successes he has had against every other single spinner.

If Lara was failing against Hoggard more than he did against McGrath would people automatically just assume Lara is merely a good player of pace rather than a very good one? Funny how with spinners there is so much more attention on it. Maybe it's because there are fewer of them.

Ponting is pretty underrated against spin though. It's mainly in India where they think he can't play the stuff for **** because Kumble and Harbhajan have got the better of him at home. Against any other spinner, and even against those two in Australia, he's as good as they come. Ponting's not weak against spin, he's just weak against Harbhajan.

I agree with you, Ponting plays spin as well or even better than most other all-time great batsmen. For some weird reason he can't get going in India.

 

[silentstriker]

Out of the three, I'd take Lara vs. the spinners and Sachin vs. the fast bowlers. I think those two are closer to each other than either is to Ponting.

 

[Pratters]

I'd take Rahul Dravid against the pace bowlers ahead of every one in the past 15 years. Highly under rated.

 

[aussie]

I'd take Rahul Dravid against the pace bowlers ahead of every one in the past 15 years. Highly under rated.

Steve Waughs says YOOOOOOO

 

[Pratters]

Post Steve Waugh. It is debateable who was better among Waugh and Dravid. I hate Steve Waugh, so can't judge him properly.

 

[AaronK]

most people just rate batsman by their stats and how much runs they make.. for me.. it is all about watching them how to make that runs.. both Lara and Tendulkar has their own unique and very attractive batting style that none of the batsman i have seen had it..The way Lara batted and specially when he was in the mood for runs.. he was the king in the field.. he would let his bat talk and play in such a fashion and style that would make u watch him whether u were supporting WI or not.. in my opinion Ponting is missing that stylishness that Lara and Sachin brought to the game..

 

[AaronK]

I'd take Rahul Dravid against the pace bowlers ahead of every one in the past 15 years. Highly under rated.

Steve Waugh and Inzi come to my mind who were equally good as Dravid..

 

[Pratters]

I wouldn't say it was style but Lara and Tendulkar always brought some thing extra to the plate which puts them ahead of batsmen like Ponting, Kallis and Dravid.

 

[Ikki]

Whatever it was, it wasn't more runs.

And Ponting > all mentioned in this thread with the exception of Waugh in playing pace.

 

[Uppercut]

Whatever it was, it wasn't more runs.

Ahahaha. Love it. Agree, too. I can't tell you which of the three is better, but they're certainly all in the same ball park as far as I'm concerned.

 

[GIMH]

Just realised that I put Ponting higher than both Lara and Tendulkar in my list of top 25 players.

FTR, also had Warne above Murali and Botham above all of his 80s all-rounder rivals

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I wasn't trying to say Ponting was a poor player of spin, I think some of his detractors significantly underrate his ability to play quality spin bowling, and he's played some great innings on turning wickets and against good spinners.

Nevertheless, I do think both Lara and Tendulkar are better players of spin than Ponting by a reasonable margin. Relatively speaking, it's their strength, while it's his weakness. I do rate Ponting the best of the three against quality seam bowling though.