"I had better technique than Gavaskar": Boycott

[Richard]

Without. I do realise Boycott is also a human as well.

 

[Richard]

Not me mate - the stuffed shirts at Lords

The "you" in my post was more of a "they" than "you, Martin Chandler" TBH.

 

[Sanz]

However the idea that Gavaskar had a much more successful test career than Boycott is nonsense. There is very little to choose between them once you go beneath the surface.

But Gavaskar did have a more successful career, scored 12 more centuries, 2000 more runs.

Against WI, Scored 13 100s in 27 matches compared to Geoff Boycott's 5 in 29 matches.
Against Australia, Scored 8 100s in 20 tests compared to Boycott's 7 in 38 Tests.

 

[Richard]

Regardless of who was better, Boycott's record against West Indies can absolutely not be compared to Gavaskar's, as they faced completely and totally different teams.

Only time any possible parrallels could be drawn was the one Boycott faced in '69 and the one Gavaskar faced in '71, and the one Boycott faced in '80 and '81 and the one Sunny faced in '83 and '83/84. Even the one Boycs faced in '74 was unrecogniseable from Gavaskar's in '74/75.

 

[Sanz]

@Richard's post :-

While I agree with that completely I would like to ask to statmongers, If it is so illogical to compare two batsman against a common opposition who a. Played mostly in the same era b. had similar batting styles 3. Played in same positions for their teams and 4 played similar roles ten what is the point in bringing out stats in zillions of threads in comparing players from different eras with different styles against different bowlers, different situations and most certainly different roles ?

 

[Richard]

All stats require context, and I for one have always said that stats taken out of context are useless.

 

[Dissector]

But Gavaskar did have a more successful career, scored 12 more centuries, 2000 more runs.

Against WI, Scored 13 100s in 27 matches compared to Geoff Boycott's 5 in 29 matches.
Against Australia, Scored 8 100s in 20 tests compared to Boycott's 7 in 38 Tests.

He scored more hundreds but played more tests and his home tests were played in more batting friendly conditions compared to Boycott. His 13 hundreds against West Indies came mostly against weak bowling attacks and the same goes for his 8 hundreds against Australia. When you take all that into account the 3 runs difference in average is irrelevant.

 

[Ikki]

Gavaskar averaged more away than home (52-50) whereas Boycott averaged less away than at home.

 

[Dissector]

Yes but most of those away runs were against relatively weak attacks: From the Windies in 71 to Australia in 1985.

 

[Ikki]

Yes but most of those away runs were against relatively weak attacks: From the Windies in 71 to Australia in 1985.

IIRC, the level of attacks were largely the same for both men against both countries.

 

[Streetwise]

Hahaha on cricinfo, Boycott takes himself to seriously.

The Ashes battle is hotting up on the airwaves as well as the pitch after a falling out between Matthew Hayden and Geoff Boycott on the opening day at Edgbaston while working for Test Match Special. Hayden, who has joined for the rest of the summer, said Boycott's batting style "emptied cricket grounds" and Boycott promptly stormed out of the commentary box saying "don't need comments like that at my stage." They shook hands later, but things could still be tense

 

[Sanz]

He scored more hundreds but played more tests and his home tests were played in more batting friendly conditions compared to Boycott. His 13 hundreds against West Indies came mostly against weak bowling attacks and the same goes for his 8 hundreds against Australia. When you take all that into account the 3 runs difference in average is irrelevant.

1. Boycott played against the similar or even weaker WI attacks for most of his career scored only 5 100s.

2. As someone already said Sunny's away average were higher than Boycott's, Sunny had more 100s in WI than Boycott had against WI in his entire career.

3. If you look at Boycott's home/away performance you would notice that it was Boycott who benefited more from playing home.

4. Against Australia, 3 (actually it is closer to 4) run difference is huge in terms of batting average especially if you consider Boycott's average drops to 45 in Australia compared to Sunny's 51 which is a 6 run difference.

 

[Dissector]

Once again you can't analyse Sunny's away record without looking at the quality of his opponents. For example on the surface his record in Australia looks good until you realize that of the three series he played one was against a Packer-weakened attack and the other was against the rubbish 1985 team against which he averaged 50 and 100+ respectively. The third was against a quality attack with
Lillee and he averaged 20.

I think the best series to compare Boycott and Sunny are the early 80's series against the West Indies. Both against superb attacks and over around 10 tests: a reasonable sample. Those were the only tests against the West Indies where Sunny faced a truly great attack and IMO Boycott out-performed Sunny though not by a huge margin.

 

[aussie]

Once again you can't analyse Sunny's away record without looking at the quality of his opponents. For example on the surface his record in Australia looks good until you realize that of the three series he played one was against a Packer-weakened attack and the other was against the rubbish 1985 team against which he averaged 50 and 100+ respectively. The third was against a quality attack with
Lillee and he averaged 20.

I think the best series to compare Boycott and Sunny are the early 80's series against the West Indies. Both against superb attacks and over around 10 tests: a reasonable sample. Those were the only tests against the West Indies where Sunny faced a truly great attack and IMO Boycott out-performed Sunny though not by a huge margin.

Yes you can add the 76 series in WI for Gavaskar as well along with that 83/84 home/away. The thing i found with this record that SJS also did a while back was, it seems like when the pitch was flat Sunny scored BIG. But if it had anything for the bowlers, the WI pacers came out on top.

 

[Sanz]

I can really argue all the points made in last two posts and tear it into pieces but neither do i have time nor the will to go through that whole thing all over again. My mistake for getting into this wonderful argument.

So yeah you win, Gavaskar was crap just like Sobers was crap, India were minnows, Tendi is Crap, Warnie was injured every time he was owned, Murali chucks, Shoaib chucks, all subcontinent pitches are flat, Lillee failed in subcontinent, Hussain is the greatest, Hayden is Crap, Stewart is greatest WK batsman off all time, Gilchrist is better ODI player of all time, and the list goes on and on....

 

[subshakerz]

Yes you can add the 76 series in WI for Gavaskar as well along with that 83/84 home/away. The thing i found with this record that SJS also did a while back was, it seems like when the pitch was flat Sunny scored BIG. But if it had anything for the bowlers, the WI pacers came out on top.

In the nine tests that Boycott played against the West Indies in the 80s, 7 were draws. So the same goes for Boycott.

 

[Ikki]

Not sure why the WI performances are taking so much of the debate. Let's say they were close; so what? What about the rest?

 

[aussie]

I can really argue all the points made in last two posts and tear it into pieces but neither do i have time nor the will to go through that whole thing all over again. My mistake for getting into this wonderful argument.

So yeah you win, Gavaskar was crap just like Sobers was crap, India were minnows, Tendi is Crap, Warnie was injured every time he was owned, Murali chucks, Shoaib chucks, all subcontinent pitches are flat, Lillee failed in subcontinent, Hussain is the greatest, Hayden is Crap, Stewart is greatest WK batsman off all time, Gilchrist is better ODI player of all time, and the list goes on and on....

Odd rant. As i said, those stats about Gavaskar's record vs WI was something SJS highlighted which is researched myself & it is plain fact. It does dispell the myth that Gavaskar dominated the great WI fast bowlers.

 

[Richard]

In the nine tests that Boycott played against the West Indies in the 80s, 7 were draws. So the same goes for Boycott.

From memory, at least 4 of those 7 had significant time lost to rain.

 

[Anil]

his grandmother had better technique than him and gavaskar...