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How would you rank the greatest test teams of all-time?

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
With all due respect, we're comparing a team that won one 5 test series 4-0 to two that dominated over prolonged periods. And as great as Bradman is, teams he played in outside that one particular series did lose tests (and series).
No we're not - The Invincibles, as I've said before, is often used in discussions like this as annoying shorthand for the Australian team of 1946-52 which was ridiculously dominant.

The Sky Sports exercise judged them just on 1948, but they also judged the Waugh Australian and Lloyd West Indies sides according to a specific XI at a specific moment.
 
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The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
When you look at the "specific playing XI at a specific time" criteria of Sky Sports, you can see why Waugh's Australian side came out on top.

They judged the apotheosis of that team to be the Johannesburg Test of 2002, where they beat this South African team - Gibbs, Kirsten, Prince, Kallis, McKenzie, Dippenaar, Boucher, Boje, Ntini, Nel, Donald - on their own turf by an innings and 360 runs. It was absolutely one of the most utterly dominant performances of all time.
 
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HookShot

U19 Vice-Captain
Well NZ scored enough runs to beat them (sans Richards) in a 3-test series.

This is the side that beat them:

Wright
Edgar
Howarth
Parker
Webb
Coney
Lees
Hadlee
Cairns
Troup
Boock


No reason why Bradman's side couldn't beat them.
Wasn’t a normal series by any means. Plus Viv Richards wasn’t in the touring squad.

 

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
Definitely. Holding, Croft, and Lloyd should all have received bans for their behaviour, but didn't. Also I mentioned Viv wasn't there. The West Indies captained by Viv went back to NZ 7 years later against a stronger NZ team and drew 1-1.
 

HookShot

U19 Vice-Captain
And then there was the infamous ‘Croft-Goodall Test’ where Croft decided that the umpire was in the way of his run up.
 
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Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
Interesting that John Morrison was commentating that (distinctive voice) as he went on to play some more games for NZ after that (must've just been playing for Wellington at that stage, or was injured).
 

Slifer

International Captain
Sky Sports Cricket conducted this exercise recently as well, though rather than general eras their comparisons were between specific playing XIs representing a nominal peak of that particular team.

In that one, Australia 2002 (Langer, Hayden, Ponting, Mark Waugh, Steve Waugh, Martyn, Gilchrist, Warne, Lee, Gillespie, McGrath) beat Australia 1948 (Barnes, Morris, Bradman, Hassett, Harvey, Miller, Loxton, Lindwall, Tallon, Ring, Johnston) in the final.

For those wondering (don't shoot the messenger!) the West Indies of 1982 - Greenidge, Haynes, Richards, Gomes, Bacchus, Lloyd, Dujon, Roberts, Holding, Garner, Croft - lost in the quarter-finals to the 2002 Australians. In hindsight they probably should have been seeded differently to at least meet in the semis.
Of course wi got knocked out early. Who the hell would pick a wi team of the 80s minus it's best bowler. And no Wi team would include Bacchus. I would've gone with either of these two lineups that actually played together:

Greenidge
Haynes
Viv
Rowe
Kalli
Lloyd*
Murray
Roberts
Holding
Garner
Croft


Or

Greenidge
Haynes
Richardson
Viv
Gomes
Lloyd*
Dujon+
Marshall
Holding
Garner
Walsh
 

Line and Length

Cricketer Of The Year
Also 50/51 - Aus won Ashes 4-1
51/52 - Aus beat WI 4-1

So 31 tests for 24 wins, 2 losses, and 5 draws
Which is why I rate Hutton's team of the '50s. Following Australia's dominant period. they won the Ashes at home in '53 (against a touring side that included Morris, Harvey, Hassett, Miller, Lindwall and Davidson etc) then successfully retained them in Australia (3-1) and at home, led by Peter May in '56 (against an attack which included Davidson, Miller, Lindwall and Benaud). And yet Sky Sports didn't give them a mention.
 
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Slifer

International Captain
Also 50/51 - Aus won Ashes 4-1
51/52 - Aus beat WI 4-1

So 31 tests for 24 wins, 2 losses, and 5 draws
Wi from that loss to NZ til tour of Australia in 1986 ( 5th test):
There are 3 contenders for no 1.
The bowling attacks neutralise each other, but the Invincibles have the best batting lineup.
Disagree with the bolded part. Don't know much about the Invincibles admittedly but the 80s wi bowling attacks were better than the 2000 Australian attacks.
 

subshakerz

International Coach
When you look at the "specific playing XI at a specific time" criteria of Sky Sports, you can see why Waugh's Australian side came out on top.

They judged the apotheosis of that team to be the Johannesburg Test of 2002, where they beat this South African team - Gibbs, Kirsten, Prince, Kallis, McKenzie, Dippenaar, Boucher, Boje, Ntini, Nel, Donald - on their own turf by an innings and 360 runs. It was absolutely one of the most utterly dominant performances of all time.
Definitely was Waugh's team peak, that series, he said so himself.

For WI, peak would have to be easily defeating Aus in 79/80, a side that had Chappell bros, Hughes, Border, Marsh, Lillee, Thomo, Hogg.
 

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
Wi from that loss to NZ til tour of Australia in 1986 ( 5th test):

Disagree with the bolded part. Don't know much about the Invincibles admittedly but the 80s wi bowling attacks were better than the 2000 Australian attacks.
Yes, they were but the Aussies had Warne for variety and the Windies struggled with leggies like Bob Holland, so Warne is a new kettle of fish. I admit the likes of Gillespie and Lee were well behind their WI equivalents.

Re the Invincibles, because they had Miller, had 5 quality bowlers - Lindwall, Miller, Johnson, Johnston, and Toshack, so Brsdman had lots of options.
 

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
Of course wi got knocked out early. Who the hell would pick a wi team of the 80s minus it's best bowler. And no Wi team would include Bacchus. I would've gone with either of these two lineups that actually played together:

Greenidge
Haynes
Viv
Rowe
Kalli
Lloyd*
Murray
Roberts
Holding
Garner
Croft


Or

Greenidge
Haynes
Richardson
Viv
Gomes
Lloyd*
Dujon+
Marshall
Holding
Garner
Walsh
It surprised me a bit too, though there was a statistical reason that specific XI at that moment was picked - it wasn't just on a whim. I wish I could find now what it was.
 

subshakerz

International Coach
Qualifying round-robin table:
Team Series Won Drawn Lost Points
Aus 2002 15 14 1 0 1208
Aus 1948 15 14 1 0 1008
Aus 1959 15 9 4 2 928
SA 2003 15 7 6 2 896
Eng 2010 15 5 8 2 896
Ind 2018 15 5 8 2 896
SA 1970 15 7 5 3 880
WI 1982 15 5 8 2 880
Eng 1958 15 5 7 3 864
WI 1965 15 5 5 5 832
Aus 1925 15 5 5 5 832
Aus 1902 15 1 3 11 752
Pak 1979 15 2 2 11 704
Aus 1976 15 1 3 11 696
NZ 1985 15 1 2 12 656
SA 1906 15 0 0 15 312

QF:
Australia (2002) beat West Indies (1982) 3-2 (winning in extra 6th tie-break Test)
Australia (1948) beat South Africa (1970) 3-2 (ditto)
England (2010) beat South Africa (2013) 3-2 (ditto)
India (2018) beat Australia (1959) 3-1

SF:
Australia (1948) beat England (2010) 2-1
Australia (2002) beat India (2018) 2-1

F:
Australia (2002) beat Australia (1948) 2-1
Some odd sides here. Pakistan 79? SA 2003?
 

trundler

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Bacchus and Gomes being there bring that side down a notch and give it a clear soft underbelly. Lee stands out in the Aussie team too though.
 

HookShot

U19 Vice-Captain
Bacchus and Gomes being there bring that side down a notch and give it a clear soft underbelly. Lee stands out in the Aussie team too though.
Larry Gomes was a well organised, competent No.3 batsman who knocked the ball around while the more flashy batsman got all the glory.

Sure he faded toward the end of his career but for a while Gomes was vital to the success of his team.
 

Slifer

International Captain
Yes, they were but the Aussies had Warne for variety and the Windies struggled with leggies like Bob Holland, so Warne is a new kettle of fish. I admit the likes of Gillespie and Lee were well behind their WI equivalents.

Re the Invincibles, because they had Miller, had 5 quality bowlers - Lindwall, Miller, Johnson, Johnston, and Toshack, so Brsdman had lots of options.
WI didn't struggle vs Bob Holland. He literally took wickets vs wi in dead rubbers. Then there's hirwani who took wickets on a literal dust bowl. Still, none of these situations ever cost WI a series, so....But if we're using that as a measurement, Warne had a decent record vs the WI team of his time. Doubt he'd do much better vs the much stronger lineup of the 80s.
 

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