Harbhajan reignites racism storm

[stephen]

This whole episode show how sledging can get out of hand!

Cricket should not be win at any cost!

Ban all sledging, and see how much better cricket is.

Ugh, how dull. Cricket really is a game where sledging has a part. Not least because you have a group of 11 players standing around in the field all day without much else to do. Abuse should be taken out of the game yes, but not sledging.

 

[Andrew Pollock]

Ugh, how dull. Cricket really is a game where sledging has a part. Not least because you have a group of 11 players standing around in the field all day without much else to do. Abuse should be taken out of the game yes, but not sledging.

Yeah, it's all fun and games! Then someone loses an eye!!

 

[sirdj]

I would correct myself if I made the statement that you accuse me of making. The fact of the matter is that I said no such thing (please, learn to read and COMPREHEND). What I said was: "Just because you perceive racism to be a one way street does not make it so, and even if it is". I made no factual statement as to whether the majority of racism past or present is directed at one specific culture or peoples.

Please do not try to dodge the issue by using weasel words. Its pretty clear what you think.

What I was saying is that you are one voice, and from the sounds of it not a particularly well educated or well mannered voice

Hmmmm...........really educated of you to try this schoolboy attempt at insults. If you wish to insult me at least keep up with the Aussie cricket team.

who has a definition of racism derived based totally on a one-eyed look at society. By its definition, racism is something which can be leveled at any one group of people. The brand of anti-racism that you are displaying is one based on vengence, not on fairness or equality.

In practice racialism has been mostly thrown at coloured people. What adds insult to injury is when non-coloured people try to preach what racialism is to coloured people. There is no question of equality of opinion here. Non-coloured people do NOT get to decide what they may say and should not be construed as racism.

So you are accusing all coloured (I hate that term by the way - I much prefer "African-origin" or "Indian-origin" or some other more specific, less discriminatory term) people of being violent when one even tries to define a word.

Please dispense the Political Correctness. Unless you are looking for trouble, do not even attempt trying to go to the door of a black guy and try teaching him what you feel racism should be. That is not me speaking from a point of view of vengeance, that is plain common sense, unless you have a deathwish.

That is a racism far more deep seeded than whatever kind of racism it is that you accuse me of. Now if I went into the home of someone with a different ethnicity and said that they had no right to even define racism - based solely on their race - that would be racism.

Ha ha..............your stand is laughable...........when a particular race is oppressed its downright arrogant if someone who belongs to the oppressor race(even well meaningfully) to even suggest to the oppressed that his view on Oppression are valid. Please go fly a kite.

 

[Andrew Pollock]

Ugh, how dull. Cricket really is a game where sledging has a part. Not least because you have a group of 11 players standing around in the field all day without much else to do. Abuse should be taken out of the game yes, but not sledging.

If getting paid $250,000+ is dull and you are so bored that you have to sledge, you should not play for your country!

It's a job that has plenty of people who will be willing too fill the position!

 

[Smudge]

Do you seriously think if Harbhajan's story was a full of holes as your are implying, Judge John Hansen wouldn't have seen through that ?

Well, Justice Hansen is a Kiwi and we do have a chip on our shoulders about Aussies...

 

[Bracken]

How can you use the appeal as a reason for Harbhajan being innocent when the charges were downgraded after CA put pressure on the Australian players to do so after having their arm twisted by the BCCI?

You know it's a great misfortune here that Harbhajan could have been found not guilty if proceedings were allowed to go on untampered with. However, now we'll never know because the BCCI and Indian team held the process to ransom and CA caved in.

If Harby would have been found not guilty because of lack of evidence I would have been more than happy - innocent till proven guilty and whatever the judge decides, that's final. And even though sometimes we find witnesses and circumstantial evidence is enough in most cases, I would have been satisfied that the charge wasn't proven beyond reasonable doubt in such a serious accusation.

However, the fact that India were prepared to boycott had the impartial judge not ruled for them and that in turn had an impact on proceedings is one of the biggest cricketing disgraces and leaves such a bad taste. I'm pretty disenfranchised with the whole thing atm.

You and me both.

I would imagine that there would be a few Australian players who would be feeling the same way.

 

[Cevno]

Justice hansen just confirmed that harbhajan used "maa ki" not monkey.He has also said that symonds broke a pact before the series of no abuse.

 

[Cevno]

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Story...line=Race+slur+off+Bhajji+after+backroom+pact

By early Tuesday, as soon as it was learnt that the Indian and Australian players had submitted a joint letter to the appeals commissioner looking into Harbhajan Singh’s appeal against his three-match ban on charges of racism, it was evident that a truce was on the cards.

Justice John Hansen was later told that Harbhajan and Symonds had resolved the issue amicably between themselves and that Australia were no longer bringing charges of “racial abuse” against the Indian. “The moment the Australians agreed to write a joint letter, the matter had almost been sorted out even before the hearing started,” a senior BCCI official told HT.

Interestingly, sources said there was a major reason behind why the Aussies gave in so late in the day, one that had nothing to do with either being gracious in the aftermath of India withdrawing the charges against Brad Hogg, nor with the BCCI’s financial clout.

Apparently, the Australian players had sought detailed legal advice on their position during the Adelaide Test. The lawyer met with the players collectively and told them something the BCCI had been maintaining throughout — in a fair appeals process, conducted by a judge, the racism charge would just not stand. There was just not enough evidence.

So the Australian team management — which had also reportedly offered a couple of days ago to reduce the racism charge to one of abuse if Harbhajan made a public apology, rejected by the Indians — decided it would be best to take the legal advice in good spirit and put an end to what was a messy, potentially explosive situation.

"What followed thereafter in the courtroom was just routine proceedings. The atmosphere was quite relaxed,” a BCCI source said. It is learnt that during the “routine proceedings”, Harbhajan was asked what exactly he said to Andrew Symonds on day three of the Sydney Test.

Pat came the reply from the off-spinner: “Teri maa ki”. Sachin Tendulkar, batting at the other end when the verbal exchange happened, was then asked: “What did you hear?” Tendulkar reportedly said: "I heard him saying teri maa ki.”

And then, said sources, was the really funny part. Harbhajan was asked to explain the meaning of the phrase in English. And when he somehow managed to translate it, everyone present "had a laugh".

Advocate VR Manohar, who represented Harbhajan through video conference from Mumbai, said that once Harbhajan admitted “to have hurled (non-racial) abuses at Symonds, the level of the Code of Conduct charges was reduced and it was left to Justice Hansen to hand out appropriate punishment for the offence under which he now stood charged”.

Indians don’t often cross the ICC’s path

Harbhajan Singh became the first Indian cricketer this year to cop a punishment for the offence. S Sreesanth was the lone Indian guilty of breaching the CoC in the last two years.

Sreesanth was found guilty of Level 1 breach of Code 1.1 (logo policy) and Level 1 breach of Code C 1 (conduct contrary to the spirit of the game) during the first Test between India and South Africa at Johannesburg in December 2006.

Now we know what happened.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Justice hansen just confirmed that harbhajan used "maa ki" not monkey.He has also said that symonds broke a pact before the series of no abuse.

How did he confirm this? Through the stump mikes? They had excerpts of the conversation in the paper, but not all of it.

 

[social]

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Story...line=Race+slur+off+Bhajji+after+backroom+pact



Now we know what happened.

What absolute crap

 

[Smudge]

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Story...line=Race+slur+off+Bhajji+after+backroom+pact



Now we know what happened.

Because it's from the Hindustan Times rather than the Sydney Morning Herald?

 

[biased indian]

How Harbhajan escaped the ban?

Link

January 29, 2008 20:15 IST

Indian off-spinner Harbhajan Singh [Images] must count himself lucky that he escaped with just a 50 per cent fine of his match-fee.

It is learnt that Harbhajan was told on Monday evening by Shashank and VR Manohar, the son-father duo of the BCCI that he must accept of having abused Andrew Symonds if he was to emerge unscathed from the hearing, conducted by the ICC commissioner Justice John Hansen in Adelaide on Tuesday.

Harbhajan was told that the only way the Code of Conduct Level 3.3 charge of racial abuse against him could be dropped was if he accepted of a minor crime.

He was told in no uncertain terms that he was to own up having abused Andrew Symonds for the punishment to be scaled down to level 2.8 of Code of Conduct.

Still, it would have not come thus far if Sachin Tendulkar was not batting with him at the other end.

It is also learnt that the Indian Cricket Board was not too keen to take up the issue of Harbhajan but the pressure of media back home and the presence of Tendulkar at the other end made them join the issue.
Still, the two parties, Cricket Australia and BCCI were not too sure of how Judge Hansen would react to the evidence and the existing stance.

As a second option, it was decided that in case Judge Hansen was found difficult to negotiate, Cricket Australia would withdraw the charges they had pressed against Harbhajan.

It is also learnt that if Harbhajan had stood his ground and not accepted any guilt, then the evidence could have piled up, if Cricket Australia had so wanted, which would have made his case untenable

 

[Bracken]

Because it's from the Hindustan Times rather than the Sydney Morning Herald?

Exactly. Apparently, anything reported by the Australian media is all lies and bullswhar. The Hindustan Times, however, lists only God, Allah and Sachin as sources.

Doesn't everyone know this?

 

[pasag]

In practice racialism has been mostly thrown at coloured people. What adds insult to injury is when non-coloured people try to preach what racialism is to coloured people. There is no question of equality of opinion here. Non-coloured people do NOT get to decide what they may say and should not be construed as racism.

Woefully misguided apologist crap. You don't hold a monopoly on what constitutes all forms of racism. An Indian can determine what slurs against their specific ethnicity and culture they find racially offensive, but to attempt to belittle the offense taken by a person in a completely different scenario and background, especially when he himself has taken offence is just ridiculous. You have NO right to tell Andrew Symonds and other people who feel offended by the term that it is not-offensive because YOU are NOT in the same situation as them and being coloured does not give you a blanket right to attempt to make that connection and shut everyone else out.

Furthermore the notion that there are worse things and this trivialises it is one of the worst arguments to come out of this saga that I've seen. It's a typical defense of racist behaviour and I've seen it many times. There are different levels of racism and obviously shooting a person based on their race or ethnicity is worse than a racial slur, but the slur is still very much unacceptable. REGARDLESS of other forms of racism being worse.

And where does further racial vilification and persecution come from? These so called innocent slurs which set the foundation for worse things. See Nazi Germany and the rhetoric that proceeded the Final Solution. One enables the other and to stamp out more serious racism it must be eradicated at the lowest levels. That doesn't mean putting someone in jail, but it means that us as a society say, hey, that's not acceptable.

Furthermore as a victim of both racial/ethnic vilification in forms of abuse and slurs, I can very much tell you that both are just as bad and hurtful and sometimes the words can be much worse, so please don't try and trivialise that and please, cut the apologist crap. It's clutching at straws at best.

 

[Cevno]

How did he confirm this? Through the stump mikes? They had excerpts of the conversation in the paper, but not all of it.

Sachin and harbhajan said "maa ki " was used and symonds confirmed that he was not 100% sure that harbhajan had not used native language.
Meanwhile symonds admitted to abusing harbhajan first after he patted lee on the back and said well bowled .
This is just coming in.

 

[social]

How Harbhajan escaped the ban?

Link

January 29, 2008 20:15 IST

Indian off-spinner Harbhajan Singh [Images] must count himself lucky that he escaped with just a 50 per cent fine of his match-fee.

It is learnt that Harbhajan was told on Monday evening by Shashank and VR Manohar, the son-father duo of the BCCI that he must accept of having abused Andrew Symonds if he was to emerge unscathed from the hearing, conducted by the ICC commissioner Justice John Hansen in Adelaide on Tuesday.

Harbhajan was told that the only way the Code of Conduct Level 3.3 charge of racial abuse against him could be dropped was if he accepted of a minor crime.

He was told in no uncertain terms that he was to own up having abused Andrew Symonds for the punishment to be scaled down to level 2.8 of Code of Conduct.

Still, it would have not come thus far if Sachin Tendulkar was not batting with him at the other end.

It is also learnt that the Indian Cricket Board was not too keen to take up the issue of Harbhajan but the pressure of media back home and the presence of Tendulkar at the other end made them join the issue.
Still, the two parties, Cricket Australia and BCCI were not too sure of how Judge Hansen would react to the evidence and the existing stance.

As a second option, it was decided that in case Judge Hansen was found difficult to negotiate, Cricket Australia would withdraw the charges they had pressed against Harbhajan.

It is also learnt that if Harbhajan had stood his ground and not accepted any guilt, then the evidence could have piled up, if Cricket Australia had so wanted, which would have made his case untenable

Far more likely scenario - the BCCI and CA simply wanted it to go away

 

[Cevno]

Exactly. Apparently, anything reported by the Australian media is all lies and bullswhar. The Hindustan Times, however, lists only God, Allah and Sachin as sources.

Doesn't everyone know this?

What absolute crap

Because it's from the Hindustan Times rather than the Sydney Morning Herald?

Just putting in perspective people here who have been citing australian newspaper atricles as evidence and saying it is obvious on that basis.
If smh can be taken as evidence in people's eyes so could hindustan times.

 

[Son Of Coco]

This just in from the Kazakhistan Times:

" "

 

[Cevno]

This just in from the Kazakhistan Times:

" "

It is just on telly and wait till it hits the internet.

He has also said that there was no evidence to convict him of this serious charge even if he feels he abused him.He has also deneid any deal.
This just shows how the aussie media has been misreporting.

And btw,even khaleej times reports indian cricket.
http://news.google.co.in/news/url?s...l=&cid=1126895454&sig2=v6DJI2vhIdQtEAmzbTQLBg

 

[aussie_26]

Just putting in perspective people here who have been citing australian newspaper atricles as evidence and saying it is obvious on that basis.
If smh can be taken as evidence in people's eyes so could hindustan times.

I wouldn't listen to anything that is said in the Indian times . I remember reading in the Indian times just last year that India was a team full of superstars that should win the world cup