Greatest finisher and clutch player ever?

[SteveNZ]

It's defs a thing that some people deal with pressure better than others. What's harder is to say who's actually good at it based on a couple of performances. Lyon for example is a suspected bottler. That fumble at headingly was ATG bad. However he could've easily had Stokes LBW or caught on the boundary like 3-4 times and then he'd be the hero and Stokes wouldn't have played a clutch knock.

You get a good nut in the final and get out for 10 doesn't mean you got out because of the pressure. Likewise, just because you performed under pressure doesn't mean it was your mental toughness or whatever that made you do well, it could just be down to luck/skill/the opposition playing poorly/stars aligning.

The best you can do is make educated guesses and that's what the point of this thread is.

Yeah but we're talking patterns over hundreds of games. We get a pretty good idea of who handles pressure and who doesn't when these guys play enough matches. I agree that getting out for 10 doesn't mean you got out because of the pressure, but performing under pressure is rare to do unless you're mentally tough enough. At least to do it enough times to get a reputation.

 

[_Ed_]

Corey Anderson was a good hitter, but I don't recall him finishing games.

His role in the World Cup semi-final is a little under-appreciated, IMO.

 

[Daemon]

Yeah but we're talking patterns over hundreds of games. We get a pretty good idea of who handles pressure and who doesn't when these guys play enough matches. I agree that getting out for 10 doesn't mean you got out because of the pressure, but performing under pressure is rare to do unless you're mentally tough enough. At least to do it enough times to get a reputation.

Don’t think we’re in disagreement here. But cases like Grant Elliott aren’t enough of a sample size for me at least.

 

[SteveNZ]

His role in the World Cup semi-final is a little under-appreciated, IMO.

Fair call, that was a pressure-filled knock.

Don’t think we’re in disagreement here. But cases like Grant Elliott aren’t enough of a sample size for me at least.

Absolutely, it was just the level of clutchness in those two games that seals it I guess. And he's just a cool, calm character. Didn't he hit a six off the last ball of a Pakistan T20 game to win it as well, then did a mic drop? EDIT it was 6 off 5 but they were 9 down.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

Don’t think we’re in disagreement here. But cases like Grant Elliott aren’t enough of a sample size for me at least.

Overseas, domestic T20 competition quarter finals are compelling evidence, right?

Ah well, it counts for me because it's my favourite T20 game I've attended and Elliot (and de Grandhomme) played clutch knocks: https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...hire-4th-quarter-final-1068427/full-scorecard

 

[Teja.]

Laxman, KP and Lara in my time watching test cricket.

Pant has showed great signs as well.

 

[Bolo.]

It's defs a thing that some people deal with pressure better than others. What's harder is to say who's actually good at it based on a couple of performances. Lyon for example is a suspected bottler. That fumble at headingly was ATG bad. However he could've easily had Stokes LBW or caught on the boundary like 3-4 times and then he'd be the hero and Stokes wouldn't have played a clutch knock.

You get a good nut in the final and get out for 10 doesn't mean you got out because of the pressure. Likewise, just because you performed under pressure doesn't mean it was your mental toughness or whatever that made you do well, it could just be down to luck/skill/the opposition playing poorly/stars aligning.

The best you can do is make educated guesses and that's what the point of this thread is.

I'm not wrong, I'm just an asshole.

 

[Burgey]

Likewise, just because you performed under pressure doesn't mean it was your mental toughness or whatever that made you do well, it could just be down to luck/skill/the opposition playing poorly/stars aligning.

Mental toughness/ rising to an occasion definitely plays a part though. Agree players can miss out on any given occasion, but if they play enough big games you get an idea of players who step it up.

Dhoni in that WC final a classic example, and the way he measured chases for much of his career. Bevan the same, though he wasn’t required in the 99 and 03 WC finals tbf. Gilly spudded it up in a couple of WCs overall but his record in three finals basically makes him the first bloke you’d pick to play in one.

Then you get guys like Kohli and Tendulkar whose records in those games is lamentable. Doesn’t mean they aren’t great players, but they’ve gassed up when it’s absolutely mattered most in that format.

 

[Burgey]

Laxman, KP and Lara in my time watching test cricket.

Pant has showed great signs as well.

Would agree with each of these save maybe KP. Certainly Lara and Laxman in tests had a habit of playing great knocks vs the best side of their era. Says a lot about their mentality.

Pant is awesome to watch and excellent at being clutch because so far he’s fearless. I hope he keeps that attitude throughout his career.

 

[Jumno]

Corey Anderson played one of the knocks of his career under pressure in the 015 WC SF. Baz played a superb knock under pressure too.

 

[CodeOfWisden]

Then you get guys like Kohli and Tendulkar whose records in those games is lamentable. Doesn’t mean they aren’t great players, but they’ve gassed up when it’s absolutely mattered most in that format.

The problem with using this tag on kohli is that he has performed exceptionally well in t20 wc and in India t20 wc definitely matters a lot.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Gilchrist if he hasn't already been mentioned. Unmatched record in WC finals, the highest pressure situation in ODIs and a lot of very Pant-like test knocks from no. 7 in his time. the 149* to chase 450+ in the 4th innings in his second test was possibly the innings of the decade. A few very good tons in the subcontinent when his team were in trouble too, like India 2001 and Sri Lanka 2004

 

[stephen]

The problem with using this tag on kohli is that he has performed exceptionally well in t20 wc and in India t20 wc definitely matters a lot.

T20 never matters.

 

[ankitj]

Gautam Gambhir too

 

[Burgey]

The problem with using this tag on kohli is that he has performed exceptionally well in t20 wc and in India t20 wc definitely matters a lot.

Perfectly fine to use that tag on Kohli when the comment you quoted literally ended with the words "when it's absolutely mattered most in that format."

 

[CodeOfWisden]

Perfectly fine to use that tag on Kohli when the comment you quoted literally ended with the words "when it's absolutely mattered most in that format."

So players can be chokers in one format while being clutch in another, i thought this was a personality based aspect.

 

[CodeOfWisden]

T20 never matters.

In India it definitely does.

 

[Burgey]

So players can be chokers in one format while being clutch in another, i thought this was a personality based aspect.

It's not so much personality as ability. If you like chokers you hate abilities.

 

[TheJediBrah]

In India it definitely does.

You could draw a cartoon cricket bat on a tree stump and it would matter in India

 

[sunilz]

So players can be chokers in one format while being clutch in another, i thought this was a personality based aspect.

Definitely. Steve Smith is a choker in 4th innings in test. Whereas his record in knockout matches in ODI WC is exceptional.