Garry Sobers vs Imran Khan

[subshakerz]

Kapil as a bowler was equivalent of 90s 45 average batsman.

Any pacer in the SC averaging less than 30 in a career can't be rated less than 40s average bat. Once you add Kapils batting the decision is easy.

 

[kyear2]

Bottomline is you are seriously underrating Kapil the bowler. But it's a pattern by now so we shouldn't be surprised.

And we're back with the innuendo, but you'll pretend it has a different meaning.

So let's hear it, what's the pattern.

You're literally trying to explain away an average of 30 with the ball. Not 25, 30.

Your argument is that he had to bowl on garbage at home, fine. His away record of 32 and 26 is not close to being ATG, it just isn't.

I grew up in the era of these guys, I give the others their flowers, though I rate Botham lower than some. He lacked the peak or the numbers.

But again, I case you forgot, what's the pattern?

@Cipher

 

[kyear2]

I commend your dedication to pick Mark Taylor as your 4th bowler and bat at 8. Truly a cricketing take of All Time.

Now you're just being a child.

You know fully well what I meant and just pouting at this point.

I didn't bring up this topic, but I will defend my positions.

 

[kyear2]

You are acting like Taylor averaged 50 with the bat.

You're acting like you didn't grow up in the 90's and know what the challenge was like for the batsmen.

I'm still awaiting the pattern.

 

[kyear2]

I will once you stop tagging me, which you did thrice now. And well, it's darn funny honestly. Expected from someone who thinks Sobers over Don is valid, while rating Mark Taylor over Kapil Dev. It's so piss poor I don't even think it's funny anylonger lol.

I don't think it's funny either for the record.

We just call names and expect the group think to engage.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Now you're just being a child.

You know fully well what I meant and just pouting at this point.

I didn't bring up this topic, but I will defend my positions.

As I said, I commend your dedication to pick Taylor as your 4th bowler. Honestly, will be hardly any harder than whatever **** you are defending rn.

 

[kyear2]

Any pacer in the SC averaging less than 30 in a career can't be rated less than 40s average bat. Once you add Kapils batting the decision is easy.

He averaged 32 away from home. Stop using that as a crutch.

A mid 40's bat in the 90's was akin to averaging in the 50's in the 2000's. This isn't new.

 

[kyear2]

As I said, I commend your dedication to pick Taylor as your 4th bowler. Honestly, will be hardly any harder than whatever **** you are defending rn.

Seems someone's getting upset. Ummmmm

 

[capt_Luffy]

Seems someone's getting upset. Ummmmm

Bro, I would be upset if you said Simpson>Kapil, I really just think it was funny for 5 minutes but irritating now.

 

[subshakerz]

He averaged 32 away from home. Stop using that as a crutch.

A mid 40's bat in the 90's was akin to averaging in the 50's in the 2000's. This isn't new.

Kapil averaged under 30 overall.

Taylor wasnt quite mid 40s. And he was wasn't known as one of the best openers of his era, Slater, Gooch, Anwar, Kirsten all ahead.

Whatever difference in their primary, Kapil has over 3000 runs and 8 tons to make that up.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Kapil averaged under 30 overall.

Taylor wasnt quite mid 40s. And he was wasn't known as one of the best openers of his era, Slater, Gooch, Anwar, Kirsten all ahead.

Whatever difference in their primary, Kapil has over 3000 runs and 8 tons to make that up.

I legit don't see much of a case for Taylor to be ahead on primary tbt. On raw averages, yes. But with longevity, home conditions and performance in top away nations....... I legit have Taylor 12th among Aussie Openers and outside my Top 100. Have Kapil 49th among pacers, hardly feel most have him much lower.
Also, love how his SR is no longer worth anything.

 

[Cipher]

Repeatedly and consistently.

Not Viv, not Lloyd, not Punter, Border, Waugh etc etc.

Think Jeb Bartlett said it best when he said, "post hoc, ergo Procter hoc" , or slightly less succinctly as Kimber said, most discussions about captaincy comes down to a masturbation circle. It's one of the most overrated aspects of the game.

Special mention can go to Jardine, but ultimately that was primarily one, even a big one, but one series.

Give me the on field strategist that changed games, but most of the time you're literally as good as your team.

None of this is remotely new.

What about Frank Worrell?

 

[subshakerz]

What about Frank Worrell?

Do you include captaincy in player ratings?

 

[kyear2]

Bro, I would be upset if you said Simpson>Kapil, I really just think it was funny for 5 minutes but irritating now.

Everyone has differing opinions, it's not remotely personal.

But you and Subz seems to believe that it is.

 

[kyear2]

What about Frank Worrell?

No.

His largest role was uniting the players and most importantly the boards.

That's not a transferable on field skill.

I've heard Benaud say that he was a great leader of men, I don't think that's a cricketing skill.

We can all agree to disagree.

 

[Cipher]

Do you include captaincy in player ratings?

I suppose I do if they were considered notably good at it. It would come after Batting/Bowling/Fielding ability though. Hard to judge captaincy too, people can be good captains in different ways. If they're someone who keeps a team full of egos harmonious/instils a cultural change in them/a great tactician or make the right ethical decisions e.g. telling a bowler to bowl underarm or turning a blind eye to sandpaper use.

 

[kyear2]

I suppose I do if they were considered notably good at it. It would come after Batting/Bowling/Fielding ability though. Hard to judge captaincy too, people can be good captains in different ways. If they're someone who keeps a team full of egos harmonious/instils a cultural change in them/a great tactician or make the right ethical decisions e.g. telling a bowler to bowl underarm or turning a blind eye to sandpaper use.

Agree that it's too difficult to judge, and you would have to rate pretty highly on all the tenants of a good captain.

And yeah, a great tactician must come first in that for me.
Tactical acumen
Lead generational team / best team of era
Great leader / bring team together / motivational
And I like the one you just added
Ethical compass

I also like aggressive captains.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Everyone has differing opinions, it's not remotely personal.

But you and Subz seems to believe that it is.

It's not about it being personal or anything, it's just literally equivalent to Sp10's Hayden~Tendulkar take. It's not insulting, just really really stupid.

 

[kyear2]

It's not about it being personal or anything, it's just literally equivalent to Sp10's Hayden~Tendulkar take. It's not insulting, just really really stupid.

I'm trying to de-escalate And you're stamping the gas.

The only thing that's incredibly stupid, and I mean incredibly, is the inability to shut off the nationalistic lens and critically look at the players and see that they aren't far apart...

As I've said, all rounder doesn't always mean better, this is very much such a case.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I'm trying to de-escalate And you're stamping the gas.

The only thing that's incredibly stupid, and I mean incredibly, is the inability to shut off the nationalistic lens and critically look at the players and see that they aren't far apart...

As I've said, all rounder doesn't always mean better, this is very much such a case.

Or sometimes that they really are that ****ing apart *wink wink* Sobers and Don