Garry Sobers vs Imran Khan

[kyear2]

For some clarity on their primary stats

Kapil 434 @ 29.64

Other pacers in his career 8278 @ 29.81
Other pacers in matches he played 1727 @ 33.13

Taylor 7525 @ 43.49

Other openers during his career 72146 @ 33.42
Other openers in matches he played 19506 @ 34.83

Can't put it clearer than that.

 

[kyear2]

Why just openers?

You know why though.

 

[Johan]

take the top 5-6 bats ffs

 

[subshakerz]

Nooo, what the hell.


He's a better bat than Kapil was a bowler.

In a team with McWarne he was a better slip than Kapil was a bat.

Everyone immediately jumped out with Kapil is easily and automatically better, but honestly and sincerely he wasn't.

One was an average fast bowler and a useful but inconsistent lower order bat.

One was a (well) above average opening batsman in one of the 2 toughest eras to do so, an AT top 10 slip, arguably the greatest to spin.

As I said, if I'm forced to choose either for an AT XI, or my current WI XI, there's no contest. You especially aren't replacing Imran with Dev.

Kapil wasn't an average pacer, he was at the very least good. That's pretty insulting.

I love how you give Taylor credit for a tougher era and Kapil zero credit for bowling on tough pitches at home.

And we know the moment we bring up his home numbers, you will considers his batting to be runs for fun.

Very consistent with your MO.

 

[Johan]

Kapil the bowler beats down Taylor the batsman in home conditions and his work in Australia and West Indies away is better than what Taylor managed anywhere away, what are we doing here?

 

[capt_Luffy]

You know why though.

Because it suits the narrative?

 

[capt_Luffy]

And again, Taylor was a Great slip and Captain, but Kapil was no dud in the field and as a captain either. Mark Taylor over Kapil is literally worse than Bob Simpson over Botham.

 

[Coronis]

Good, then include all batsmen and bowlers

Including tailenders?

Also sidenote here: shoutouts to Hayden and Taylor the only two blokes to play 100+ tests as completely pure openers (honourable mention to Haynes, who batted 1 innings at 8 in his final test with a broken finger)

 

[subshakerz]

Kapil the bowler beats down Taylor the batsman in home conditions and his work in Australia and West Indies away is better than what Taylor managed anywhere away, what are we doing here?

And he doesn't want to mention over 3000 runs for Kapil at a high SR.

 

[Coronis]

And he doesn't want to mention over 3000 runs for Kapil at a high SR.

Bro. Johan was literally comparing ONLY their primary disciplines. Why else would I respond like that? Do you really think me that ignorant?

 

[subshakerz]

Bro. Johan was literally comparing ONLY their primary disciplines. Why else would I respond like that? Do you really think me that ignorant?

No, not you sorry.

 

[Coronis]

No, not you sorry. I was referring to Kyear since he hasn't even mentioned Kallis batting.

Ooh this is the second time today you’ve crossed me sonny… don’t make it a third!

 

[capt_Luffy]

Including tailenders?

Also sidenote here: shoutouts to Hayden and Taylor the only two blokes to play 100+ tests as completely pure openers (honourable mention to Haynes, who batted 1 innings at 8 in his final test with a broken finger)

More like Top 6 really. I don't really think I rate Mark that ahead as batsman. Think have him 112th and 12th among Aussie Openers. Great captain and slipper so might have him ahead of Langer as a player, but not Woodfull

 

[Coronis]

More like Top 6 really. I don't really think I rate Mark that ahead as batsman. Think have him 112th and 12th among Aussie Openers. Great captain and slipper so might have him ahead of Langer as a player, but not Woodfull

See now you’re trying to twist things. And c’mon you know opener is a specialist batting position.

 

[capt_Luffy]

See now you’re trying to twist things. And c’mon you know opener is a specialist batting position.

I mean, yeah.... But I also think just comparing runs from openers is pointless.

 

[kyear2]

Kapil wasn't an average pacer, he was at the very least good. That's pretty insulting.

I love how you give Taylor credit for a tougher era and Kapil zero credit for bowling on tough pitches at home.

And we know the moment we bring up his home numbers, you will considers his batting to be runs for fun.

Very consistent with your MO.

Johan brought up better way from home, that's what's being responded to.

The numbers illustrated, and what I was replying to, were for his numbers away, so not sure how playing tests in India impacted on that.
While Taylor performed basically the same home and away, again, in one of the toughest eras for opening batsmen.

Coronis then clearly showed that Kapil was at the mean for fast bowlers during his era, while Taylor was considerably above for his.

And not sure of the point of your argument because you already admitted that Taylor was a better batsman than Kapil was a bowler.

And it's so very rich when you accuse people of attacking you and you're casting aspersions at me.

What's my angle? No West Indians, no favorite players. Kapil is just imho, overrated. He was an (according to you) at best "good bowler" and decent lower order bat. Nothing there screams ATG.

 

[subshakerz]

What's my angle? No West Indians, no favorite players. Kapil is just imho, overrated. He was an (according to you) at best "good bowler" and decent lower order bat. Nothing there screams ATG.

He doesn't need to be an ATG to beat Mark Taylor.

Good bowler + decent bat > very good opener and great captain

 

[Johan]

Taylor's average: 43.49
Others Batsmen (1-6): 37.77
Ratio: 1.15

Kapil Dev: 29.64
Other Pace bowlers (1-5): 32.98
Ratio: 1.11

Kapil Dev: 29.64
Orher Bowlers (1-5): 35.82
Ratio: 1.20

 

[kyear2]

Kapil the bowler beats down Taylor the batsman in home conditions and his work in Australia and West Indies away is better than what Taylor managed anywhere away, what are we doing here?

The amount of context ignored is staggering for one.

43 in Australia isn't poor by any measure in the 90's, so don't understand the beat down narrative.

Kapil was objectively poor in multiple countries and ended up with an average of 30 in the 80's.

How is that better than a 43 opening bat in the 90's?

You're for some reason ignoring the poor countries on his record.

And it's tou that clearly stated that his away record was better than Taylor's when it's clearly not.

 

[kyear2]

Because it suits the narrative?

Because one was an opening batsman and the other was a fast bowler.

And you're just trying to adjust the numbers to suit yours?