Garry Sobers vs Imran Khan

[capt_Luffy]

Because one was an opening batsman and the other was a fast bowler.

And you're just trying to adjust the numbers to suit yours?

Nope, I am just saying comparing averages of just Openers is stupid. Anyways, I think I am pretty done with this one, so don't bother to tag me related to this again, as I genuinely think it's worse than where PFK rates Kapil.

 

[h_hurricane]

There is a reason kyear2 hates Kapil Dev.

Kapil dismissed his favorite Marshall as many as 10 times, which is more than any other bowler he played against. No one else dismissed him more than 6 times.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/52419.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=dis_dismissals;template=results;type=batting;view=bowler_summary

 

[subshakerz]

There is a reason kyear2 hates Kapil Dev.

Kapil dismissed his favorite Marshall as many as 10 times, which is more than any other bowler he played against. No one else dismissed him more than 6 times.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/52419.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=dis_dismissals;template=results;type=batting;view=bowler_summary

Succeeding against WI in that era oddly doesn't get much points in Kyears books...

 

[Johan]

The amount of context ignored is staggering for one.

43 in Australia isn't poor by any measure in the 90's, so don't understand the beat down narrative.

Kapil was objectively poor in multiple countries and ended up with an average of 30 in the 80's.

How is that better than a 43 opening bat in the 90's?

You're for some reason ignoring the poor countries on his record.

And it's tou that clearly stated that his away record was better than Taylor's when it's clearly not.

43 in Australia is good, 26 in India as a paceman is better, 26 bowling average is generally better than 43 batting average unless extreme context is involved.

Taylor has plenty of poor countries, I'm the only one that is infact working with the context, Taylor had that massive knock on a flat pancake against Pakistan A attack, and they didn't even win the match, it drew, this is the same kind of stuff we critique Williamson for. Taylor averaged 26 in Pakistan when asked to face their main attack.

Taylor was not consistently scoring everywhere, Kapil had two great back to back tours of West Indies and 3 great tours of Australia, and he was overall great in those countries. Taylor was overall great in two, England and Pakistan, and we just discussed the context of his Pakistan record.

now you can choose whether you take the guy who is great in Australia and West Indies or the guy who is great in England (one series against paper gun bowling) and Pakistan, the context of which we discussed, and if you say you'd take Taylor's England and Pakistan over Kapil's Australia and West Indies, I don't really know what to say.

They were both very mixed away outside those two countries, Kapil averaging 39 with the ball with 5 five wicket hauls and Taylor averaging 30 with the bat with 2 centuries.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Kapil as a bowler was equivalent of 90s 45 average batsman.

 

[capt_Luffy]

43 in Australia is good, 26 in India as a paceman is better, 26 bowling average is generally better than 43 batting average unless extreme context is involved.

Taylor has plenty of poor countries, I'm the only one that is infact working with the context, Taylor had that massive knock on a flat pancake against Pakistan A attack, and they didn't even win the match, it drew, this is the same kind of stuff we critique Williamson for. Taylor averaged 26 in Pakistan when asked to face their main attack.

Taylor was not consistently scoring everywhere, Kapil had two great back to back tours of West Indies and 3 great tours of Australia, and he was overall great in those countries. Taylor was overall great in two, England and Pakistan, and we just discussed the context of his Pakistan record.

now you can choose whether you take the guy who is great in Australia and West Indies or the guy who is great in England (one series against paper gun bowling) and Pakistan, the context of which we discussed, and if you say you'd take Taylor's England and Pakistan over Kapil's Australia and West Indies, I don't really know what to say.

They were both very mixed away outside those two countries, Kapil averaging 39 with the ball with 5 five wicket hauls and Taylor averaging 30 with the bat with 2 centuries.

Will just add while Kapil struggled with the ball in England, he was pretty good with the bat. Overall won 3 MoTMs and 1 MoTS their, and was instrumental in a Series win and a draw. And in context, he played 3 Series in Pakistan, and bowled in 1 inning in another. Among those 3 were his debut in which Chandra averaged 48, Bedi 81 and Prasanna 117; and in the two other Series he was the 2nd highest wicket taker in some pretty flat pitches, averaging 34 and 31. I genuinely think his Pakistan bowling record is perfectly good, and the only country away you can call him a total flop is NZ.

 

[kyear2]

And again, Taylor was a Great slip and Captain, but Kapil was no dud in the field and as a captain either. Mark Taylor over Kapil is literally worse than Bob Simpson over Botham.

Well that's your opinion and I see it differently.

As as much as Kapil was no dud in the field, the compatible impacts isn't remotely close.

But it starts with I just think Tubby was a better batsman then Kapil was a bowler.

 

[kyear2]

And he doesn't want to mention over 3000 runs for Kapil at a high SR.

It was mentioned, and it is factored in.

But you do realise that doesn't move the needle for me the way it does for you.

At the end of the day, he's not a great bowler.

And you're doing it again.

 

[kyear2]

I mean, yeah.... But I also think just comparing runs from openers is pointless.

Really now?

How?

And since when do we compare averages of pavers and spinners?

 

[kyear2]

He doesn't need to be an ATG to beat Mark Taylor.

Good bowler + decent bat > very good opener and great captain

In your opinion, mine would be.

Very good opener, ATG slip and AT captain > above average bowler and decent lower order bat.

To be frank I don't need the captain part.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Well that's your opinion and I see it differently.

As as much as Kapil was no dud in the field, the compatible impacts isn't remotely close.

But it starts with I just think Tubby was a better batsman then Kapil was a bowler.

Dude I literally called your opinion bull crap and called PFK's rating of Kapil much more sensible and requested you not to tag me with this anymore in this nonsense. I have much better ways to spend my time like watching a 10 hour film of paint drying (wonder if anyone got the reference)

 

[subshakerz]

To be frank I don't need the captain part.

So you just said it would take an ATG to beat Taylor.

 

[kyear2]

Nope, I am just saying comparing averages of just Openers is stupid. Anyways, I think I am pretty done with this one, so don't bother to tag me related to this again, as I genuinely think it's worse than where PFK rates Kapil.

I'm not the one who brought it up.

I don't think there's a scenario where I have to choose between the two where Kapil would be the choice. Good openers are hard to find and he flourished on one of the toughest eras to be one.

 

[subshakerz]

I'm not the one who brought it up.

I don't think there's a scenario where I have to choose between the two where Kapil would be the choice. Good openers are hard to find and he flourished on one of the toughest eras to be one.

Bottomline is you are seriously underrating Kapil the bowler. But it's a pattern by now so we shouldn't be surprised.

 

[kyear2]

There is a reason kyear2 hates Kapil Dev.

Kapil dismissed his favorite Marshall as many as 10 times, which is more than any other bowler he played against. No one else dismissed him more than 6 times.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/52419.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=dis_dismissals;template=results;type=batting;view=bowler_summary

Yup, you've figured that out.

Because that's a stat I keep plastered on the wall of my office.

And I don't hate Kapil, I don't know why he's rated so highly. He wasn't a great bowler.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I'm not the one who brought it up.

I don't think there's a scenario where I have to choose between the two where Kapil would be the choice. Good openers are hard to find and he flourished on one of the toughest eras to be one.

I commend your dedication to pick Mark Taylor as your 4th bowler and bat at 8. Truly a cricketing take of All Time.

 

[kyear2]

Dude I literally called your opinion bull crap and called PFK's rating of Kapil much more sensible and requested you not to tag me with this anymore in this nonsense. I have much better ways to spend my time like watching a 10 hour film of paint drying (wonder if anyone got the reference)

The stop responding, lol.

I think your overinflated opinion of him is absolute garbage since we decided to go there.

In an era where the greats are averaging below 23, everywhere..... He's coming in at almost 30.

There's only so much one can try to explain away.

 

[kyear2]

So you just said it would take an ATG to beat Taylor.

No, I just said Kapil for me isn't one.

 

[subshakerz]

The stop responding, lol.

I think your overinflated opinion of him is absolute garbage since we decided to go there.

In an era where the greats are averaging below 23, everywhere..... He's coming in at almost 30.

There's only so much one can try to explain away.

You are acting like Taylor averaged 50 with the bat.

 

[capt_Luffy]

The stop responding, lol.

I think your overinflated opinion of him is absolute garbage since we decided to go there.

In an era where the greats are averaging below 23, everywhere..... He's coming in at almost 30.

There's only so much one can try to explain away.

I will once you stop tagging me, which you did thrice now. And well, it's darn funny honestly. Expected from someone who thinks Sobers over Don is valid, while rating Mark Taylor over Kapil Dev. It's so piss poor I don't even think it's funny anylonger lol.