Flintoff was drunk

[Lillian Thomson]

A couple more articles related to the book:

Fletcher blasts Botham

Fletcher is a sour hypocrite

 

[Burgey]

Not sure of the exact terminology but if it takes over your professional life then it is a problem.

AWTA - you can have a problem with grog, in how it affects your behaviour, and not be an alcoholic.

 

[Perm]

Why are people so intent on criticising Duncan Fletcher? Quite pathetic really.

 

[Stapel]

Why are people so intent on criticising Duncan Fletcher? Quite pathetic really.

As Geoff Boycott said: Fletcher took the moral high ground by claiming 'nasty' details should not be uncovered in the media.

Apart from that, he appears to have made Flintoff captain, because he was hoping that might make him more aware of his responsibilities and thus might prevent him from getting drunk a few times during the tour.
I find that an unbelievable stupid reason to make someone captain.....

Furthermore, I don't think that a few drinking sessions are really that bad. Of course, being drunk in the morning training session is no good thing, but in the end it only effects this one training session.

 

[ohtani's jacket]

We had this argument at the time about Flintoff's drinking... I think you'll find that the medical definition of a drinking problem and indeed alcoholism is not as lenient as people who think Flintoff's a good lad. And who's to say that Flintoff isn't addicted to alcohol?

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Why are people so intent on criticising Duncan Fletcher? Quite pathetic really.

It's because he's brought out a new book and slated a load of cricket people including his own captain.

 

[Perm]

It's because he's brought out a new book and slated a load of cricket people including his own captain.

And? Isn't that what sports books are usually for? Better to be honest IMO.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

And? Isn't that what sports books are usually for? Better to be honest IMO.

But then it's not "pathetic" if those insulted want to hit back. In fact it'll probably help sell the book more.

 

[Perm]

But then it's not "pathetic" if those insulted want to hit back. In fact it'll probably help sell the book more.

I don't have any problem with Flintoff trying to defend himself. I've no idea how he could possibly do it, because the antics he got up to are inexcuseable in my books, but he can still try. I just think it's pathetic how people are criticising Fletcher for revealing the truths, but I get the feeling if the player involved was less loved and not as important to England, then people would be sharpening the knives.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

I don't have any problem with Flintoff trying to defend himself. I've no idea how he could possibly do it, because the antics he got up to are inexcuseable in my books, but he can still try. I just think it's pathetic how people are criticising Fletcher for revealing the truths, but I get the feeling if the player involved was less loved and not as important to England, then people would be sharpening the knives.

Freddie hasn't replied yet, it'll be interesting to see what he has to say at some time. It's Boycott and Botham who have hit back.

 

[Perm]

Freddie hasn't replied yet, it'll be interesting to see what he has to say at some time. It's Boycott and Botham who have hit back.

I wouldn't be overly interested in what Flintoff says anyway. As I said previously, being drunk at a practice isn't acceptable, especially for the team captain. I can see where Boycott is coming from, but he usually has a fair few negative things to say about everything.

 

[Richard]

We had this argument at the time about Flintoff's drinking... I think you'll find that the medical definition of a drinking problem and indeed alcoholism is not as lenient as people who think Flintoff's a good lad. And who's to say that Flintoff isn't addicted to alcohol?

Equally, who the blazes is to say he is unless they know one hell of a lot more than anyone on here is likely to know?

All we know yet is that Flintoff was irresponsible with a few drinks more than once, something I daresay most have also done.

Until I know a hell of a lot about exact drinking patterns, I'm not going to be making any accusations.

 

[Richard]

A couple more articles related to the book:

Fletcher blasts Botham

Fletcher is a sour hypocrite

It's a shame, really - Boycott is pretty much right in what he says about the media. It's not there to be nice. Well, I'd like it TBH if it was. I'd like it if the media and those in the cricket team worked together to the maximum extent possible.

As it is, I don't see how you can expect someone like Duncan Fletcher to accept the media for being what they are then just forgive them everything, and be open and warm to them. If someone's a &%$£ to you, frankly, you've got no obligation to do anything but return the favour.

 

[vic_orthdox]

I'd like it if the media and those in the cricket team worked together to the maximum extent possible.

I'd also like it if the media and the govermnent worked to the maximum extent possible.

 

[Richard]

Yeah, that too.

 

[vic_orthdox]

As it is, I don't see how you can expect someone like Duncan Fletcher to accept the media for being what they are then just forgive them everything, and be open and warm to them. If someone's a &%$£ to you, frankly, you've got no obligation to do anything but return the favour.

I'd say that the counter-argument towards that is that the accusation towards Fletcher, from what I can see, is not that he was prickly towards a certain journalist or two, but that he was prickly throughout whole news conferences on regular occassions. You're representing the mood of the team in front of those press conferences, you need to show - not just to the press, but far more importantly to the consumers of the media - that there's a positivity flowing through the group. Fletcher didn't convey that.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Yeah, that too.

ATTN: everybody. Democracy just spontaneously combusted.

 

[Richard]

Not everyone is Frank Packer and Rupert Murdoch y'know.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Not everyone is Frank Packer and Rupert Murdoch y'know.

??

The idea of government and the media working together is repulsive. Similarly, the sports press are there to hold accountable decisions made by those in positions of sporting power, in which people have a vested interest in.

 

[Richard]

I'd say that the counter-argument towards that is that the accusation towards Fletcher, from what I can see, is not that he was prickly towards a certain journalist or two, but that he was prickly throughout whole news conferences on regular occassions. You're representing the mood of the team in front of those press conferences, you need to show - not just to the press, but far more importantly to the consumers of the media - that there's a positivity flowing through the group. Fletcher didn't convey that.

What some might interpret as "prickly" I'd merely interpret as "noncommittal". He tried to remain as neutral as possible; he knew the media had the potential for huge backstabbing, interpreting things in their own way totally different to how they're meant, and many other things. So he tried to minimise that.

Sadly, there's really no winning with the media - there will always be those who criticise, and it's not remotely possible to give them nothing to criticise. If you try to be noncommittal, thus minimising this and that, people will say you should be showing more charisma and positivity.

If people take against this and write a load of crap about how bad you are, I don't see why you should then show any inclination to speak to them ever again.