Fielding Statistics: A New Approach

[G.I.Joe]

He's going off the text commentary. It isn't meant to be an infallible exercise.

FMD, complaining about his methodology is akin to the BCCI's argument about DRS not being 100% fool-proof.

 

[viriya]

How do you know that without watching the game?

Mostly because direct hits and diving stops that save runs have a pretty standard way of being described.. Especially direct hits - if a runout involves one you almost always have the words "direct hit" in the text.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Yeah, but you have to compare your results with the ground truth which is to actually watch the game.

 

[cnerd123]

Thing with saving runs is that it isn't just diving and sliding and cutting the ball off.

Batsmen aren't going to try to pinch a quick single against a Dlishan or a Ponting, but they might if the fielder was Ashwin or Tahir. That "nudged to midwicket, dot ball" could have very well have been "nudged to midwicket, one run" had the fielder been different. Similarly, a slow mover with a weak arm in the deep would encourage the batsmen to run a second or a third.

Secondly, I personally like to view a fielder's value in terms of runs conceded (through misfields, fumbles, bad throws, overthrows, drops, slow reactions, slow movement) rather than runs saved. The number of times where a fielder can actively 'save' runs through their fielding brilliance is far less than the number of opportunities they have to concede runs over the course of an innings.

This is where guys like Kohli, Raina, Rohit, etc have been so brilliant for the Indian ODI side when compared to the old gen - they make very few basic errors, and their presence in the field has made it more of a risk to steal quick ones or twos. As a unit they probably help India concede 25-30 runs less per innings when compared to the old gen's fielding - which is to say, the concede less runs in the field than the old gen did, and not that they saved more runs in the field than the old gen.

EDIT: Also, captaincy plays a big role. Putting the right men in the right spot. A good captain can make an average fielding side look like a good one by having the best fielders placed in the right spots and having the weak ones hidden from the ball.

 

[hendrix]

I don't see the point in a runs saved or runs allowed statistic.

I would much rather see something like "player x moved 2 metres to his right in 0.5 seconds at midwicket, 15 metres from the pitch. No run scored".

 

[cnerd123]

I think a meaningful statistic would be a Dropped Catch % (The % of catches dropped) and a Ground Fielding Error % (The % of times a player makes a 'mistake' when the ball is hit to him).

This would be somewhat subjective (how do you define a mistake) and a bit flawed (half-chances the others wouldn't get close to will be considered drops or mistakes), but more revealing of a player's fielding ability in the long run.

 

[viriya]

I think a meaningful statistic would be a Dropped Catch % (The % of catches dropped) and a Ground Fielding Error % (The % of times a player makes a 'mistake' when the ball is hit to him).

This would be somewhat subjective (how do you define a mistake) and a bit flawed (half-chances the others wouldn't get close to will be considered drops or mistakes), but more revealing of a player's fielding ability in the long run.

Good point - I'm already implementing a drop % statistic which makes more sense than just the raw number of drops. Ground fielding error is probably not going to be possible because an average stop is almost never acknowledged with the fielder's name.

 

[marc71178]

There's no standard definition of a drop so a drop % is irrelevant.

 

[sledger]

The size of a fielder's hands also needs to be taken into account in any analysis.

 

[scooter185]

Here's one of the Baseball defense stats that's gotten a lot of attention recently DRS | FanGraphs Sabermetrics Library and this one sounds a lot like what you are attempting to do Baseball Prospectus | Glossary

Both links explain the theory behind the stat, and the fangraphs one has even more links.

 

[viriya]

Finally done with the first iteration. I could parse commentary from 2005/6- for Tests and ODIs, and fixed a lot of the issues/bugs I found from the earlier setup. Still probably have issues, but this is a good place to start imo.

I've done separate Best/Worst lists for current/career/performances for Tests and ODIs. Decided to rate drops/catches/direct hits based on the current rating of the batsman involved instead of the "expected runs saved" since the latter would be tough to evaluate especially for newer players. For now I don't track the batsman's score when the fielding event occurs - something that's on the to do list.

Methodology:
cricrate | Test Fielding Ratings
cricrate | ODI Fielding Ratings

Test Fielding:
cricrate | Current Best/Worst Test Fielders
cricrate | Best/Worst Test Fielding Careers
cricrate | Best/Worst Test Fielding Performances

ODI Fielding:
cricrate | Current Best/Worst ODI Fielders
cricrate | Best/Worst ODI Fielding Careers
cricrate | Best/Worst ODI Fielding Performances

You can use the Best/Worst links on the heading to jump to each list.

Some interesting observations
- There seems to be a big difference between great fielders and poor fielders in terms of drop rate %. Great ones tend do be in the 5% zone while poor fielders go anywhere from 30-50%+.. a huge difference by any measure.
- Runs saved from great ground fielding and runs lost from misfields do not seem that significant - seems overvalued even assuming I'm missing some of the events.
- Some of the great ground fielders like Gibbs, AB, Ponting, Guptill and Collingwood feature high up on the career list, while Pakistani and WI fielders dominate the worst categories (especially in Tests).

Any feedback appreciated. AFAIK this is the first ever attempt at meaningful fielding statistics in cricket - I shall take this time to pat myself on the back for a job done well enough so far.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Wicketkeepers should be in their own category.

 

[viriya]

Wicketkeepers should be in their own category.

Yes I was thinking about that, avoided it for now since that would make for 4 tables in each page.. but doesn't make sense to compare ground fielders with keepers so prob worth it anyway.

I think from the numbers you could say that AB has been the best ground fielder in world cricket in the past 8 years or so.

 

[NUFAN]

Hey everyone, Matthew Wade is the best ODI fielder for Australia.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Dilshan is apparently one of the worst fielders in the world.

 

[viriya]

Dilshan is apparently one of the worst fielders in the world.

Yes I was surprised at that, I checked his drops as well and they are legit - I think he's fallen off lately - could say he's overrated.

 

[Debris]

Yes I was thinking about that, avoided it for now since that would make for 4 tables in each page.. but doesn't make sense to compare ground fielders with keepers so prob worth it anyway.

I think from the numbers you could say that AB has been the best ground fielder in world cricket in the past 8 years or so.

I think you might need to include number of catches attempted per match as well as drop percentage. There is the issue of someone like Bevan being quick enough to make an attempt at a catch but Rackemann being too slow to get near the ball.

Position might also matter. Are more catches dropped in the slips than at mid-on, for instance. That is starting to get tricky, though, because you don't have set positions like in baseball.

 

[viriya]

I think you might need to include number of catches attempted per match as well as drop percentage. There is the issue of someone like Bevan being quick enough to make an attempt at a catch but Rackemann being too slow to get near the ball.

Position might also matter. Are more catches dropped in the slips than at mid-on, for instance. That is starting to get tricky, though, because you don't have set positions like in baseball.

No way to figure that out from text commentary. I do try to ignore drops that have text like "tough chance" or "would've been a great catch" but the parser isn't perfect for obvious reason.

 

[marc71178]

Dilshan is apparently one of the worst fielders in the world.

Clearly. I mean the extremely flawed stats ignoring watching the actual games say that so it must be true.

This almost makes the Ishant being a better bowler than Philander thing look sane.

 

[viriya]

Clearly. I mean the extremely flawed stats ignoring watching the actual games say that so it must be true.

This almost makes the Ishant being a better bowler than Philander thing look sane.

Not that there's any convincing you but I'll play along. I checked all of his drops and they were legitimate. 20% drop rate is poor for a point fielder based on others like AB/Ponting/Guptill/Hussey/Collingwood who are in the 2-10% range.

And I already pointed out that Philander had an average 2014 in Tests compared to Ishant who had one of his best (42 average vs 31) , so while their careers aren't comparable, current form-wise it's not a stretch to consider them close to each other.