Engineer or Kirmani

[Richard]

Almost beyond question India's finest wicketkeeper-batsmen, following on directly from one another (and being succeeded directly by Kiran More and Nayan Mongia too) and ensuring over 2 decades of almost unbroken security behind the stumps.

Which was better? I'd go Engineer every time myself - though Kirmani was a better batsman than I'd initially given him credit for, he was not as good as Engineer (who also opened with a degree of success), and what's more Engineer kept to the famed spin triplet (three from four of Bedi, Chandra, Prasanna and Venkat - and once in 1967 all four) whereas their careers were almost finished by the time Kirmani came into the side, and the only really top-class bowler of Kirmani's career was Kapil Dev.

Nonetheless, both are routinely selected in Indian all-time XIs, where I'd taken for granted Engineer would be the automatic choice as Wasim Bari would surely be for Pakistan, or Ian Smith for New Zealand. So, those that way inclined, vote.

 

[FRAZ]

Engineer was a way bigger name than the other two and that's all I can say . As far as technicalities are concerned then I guess that I have only noticed Kirmani and Engineer playing and both were keeping alright . They were not keeping to Lillees or Akrams etc so can't say if they were the best in the world .

 

[archie mac]

Agree with Richard, an easy one for mine

 

[The Sean]

I'm a Kirmani man myself - perhaps influenced by the fact that as I was first discovering cricket in the early 80s he was the best keeper in the world, and I maintain he remains one of the finest I've ever seen. I never thought of Engineer necessarily as being considered the world's best keeper during his career, though given that he kept so well to the Quartet and also had to compete with Knotty for the World's Best title, that's possibly not something I can hold too heavily against him. Still, when my All Time Indian XI is selected, I have Kirmani in there.

Though FWIW Rich, I'd have Wadsworth over Smith every time in an all time NZ XI.

 

[archie mac]

I'm a Kirmani man myself - perhaps influenced by the fact that as I was first discovering cricket in the early 80s he was the best keeper in the world, and I maintain he remains one of the finest I've ever seen. I never thought of Engineer necessarily as being considered the world's best keeper during his career, though given that he kept so well to the Quartet and also had to compete with Knotty for the World's Best title, that's possibly not something I can hold too heavily against him. Still, when my All Time Indian XI is selected, I have Kirmani in there.

Though FWIW Rich, I'd have Wadsworth over Smith every time in an all time NZ XI.

I was that way also, but reading Flat Jack and Clive Lloyd and the great things Engineer did for Lancs I have chaged my mind

 

[Anil]

I'm a Kirmani man myself - perhaps influenced by the fact that as I was first discovering cricket in the early 80s he was the best keeper in the world, and I maintain he remains one of the finest I've ever seen. I never thought of Engineer necessarily as being considered the world's best keeper during his career, though given that he kept so well to the Quartet and also had to compete with Knotty for the World's Best title, that's possibly not something I can hold too heavily against him. Still, when my All Time Indian XI is selected, I have Kirmani in there.

agreed...engineer was the better batsman, but as a pure 'keeper, kirmani was just top-notch and in my opinion the better of the two....

 

[silentstriker]

agreed...engineer was the better batsman, but as a pure 'keeper, kirmani was just top-notch and in my opinion the better of the two....

Agreed - I go for Kirmani.

 

[archie mac]

agreed...engineer was the better batsman, but as a pure 'keeper, kirmani was just top-notch and in my opinion the better of the two....

Did you see them keep much?

 

[Engle]

Saw CLoyd stumped Engineer bwled Intikhab...Masters match

Engineer had the greater variety of experience playing CC in Eng and a better bat than Kirmani.
Kirmani the better keeper, being small, lithe, agile.
Was the diff in batting equal to the diff in keeping ? Hard to tell. Tho in an AT XI, I'd lean towards Kirmani what with Ind having so much batting depth.

 

[skipper]

Kirmani for me.

 

[neville cardus]

And I, with typical decisiveness, break the stalemate. Well done, Farokh.

 

[Richard]

Thought I'd bump this as there's disappointingly few people - Indians especially - who've voted on this so far, and hope I might get a few more.

 

[silentstriker]

Engineer was the more dashing batsman, but I've seen some footage of Kirmani behind the stumps and he was excellent. He shared some of the same era with Knott, and though wasn't as good as Knott, but he was still very good.

This still amazes me.

 

[Anil]

Did you see them keep much?

didn't see a lot of engineer, my info is mostly from video clips and articles....saw a lot of kirmani and he was exceptional, they have been compared a lot and this is what i've heard most experts say....

 

[Richard]

This still amazes me.

Me too. That pitch must have been slow, but even so it's an astonishing piece of wicketkeeping.

And to think - Knott wasn't even the best wicketkeeper in the country of his time. Probably the best to a single spin-bowler there's ever been, mind, in Underwood.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

We didn't see much overseas cricket during Kirmani's reign, he was fairly untidy in England in 1982 - can't remember why he wasn't on the 1979 tour off hand.
Although not in the same league as the greatest wicketkeeper of all time - Alan Knott - in many ways Engineer had some similarities in that they both had a reputation for being flamboyant due to their eccentric manorisms between deliveries, Both however had total concentration and their actually style of keeping was simplicity itself - as the best techniques often are.

 

[Goughy]

What I know about Kirmani off the top of my head wouldnt fill the back of a stamp. Engineer, on the other hand, was a long time player in County Cricket and benefits from a raised profile in the UK because of it.

If you ask people in the UK with passable cricket knowledge "Who is the greatest Indian keeper?" and Engineer would easily head the polls, possibly purely down to this increased exposure and profile.

Id vote Engineer but I couldnt argue why as Im quite ignorant on the career of Kirmani

 

[ret]

Why is Vijay Dahiya in the poll?

 

[Richard]

A Dasa (irrelevant third) option. You'll see such a thing in most polls started by long-term CWers.

 

[ret]

I will vote for Dahiya, the underdog, then