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Draft - your selection must have a batting average close to the previous player's selection

JOJOXI

State Vice-Captain
He could well save his wildcard for the final round. He's far more likely to get an all rounder this round than next. I expect that with all the wild cards ahead of him in the next round the average well be somewhere around 50 after the final wildcard.

Either way I'm not going to be overly happy with my final round I think.
You may well be right looking at his squad, took the you need batsman, I need bowlers, pick before you and have a wildcard as meaning specialist bowlers but yep unless Rhodes plays at 7 and Ames at 6 or vice versa will need an allrounder of some sort you imagine. I suspect you might get the sort of area average wise I suspect you'll want but even if you do, the 5 people who pick immediately before you have used a wildcard so might be lack of quality options if its an average that we've already been at earlier in this draft
 

stephen

Hall of Fame Member
You may well be right looking at his squad, took the you need batsman, I need bowlers, pick before you and have a wildcard as meaning specialist bowlers but yep unless Rhodes plays at 7 and Ames at 6 or vice versa will need an allrounder of some sort you imagine. I suspect you might get the sort of area average wise I suspect you'll want but even if you do, the 5 people who pick immediately before you have used a wildcard so might be lack of quality options if its an average that we've already been at earlier in this draft
Yeah I was stuck between a rock and a hard place for my last pick. I could get a gun batsman but then I'd have had to wildcard to a keeper last round and been locked into playing Noble as my fourth bowler. By wild carding to a keeper this round I've placed myself in the worst position in the draft pick order but I might get another all rounder or pure bowler, which I would prefer.

I think my side will end up pretty good regardless of who I get (my top 5 is arguably the strongest in the game) but I'd like another bowling option, even if its not great. I can always bat Noble lower and rely on him more as a bowler though. After all, he took well over 4 wpm, which puts him into ATG category for wpm, even if his bowling average is flattered by his era (inflating his bowling and batting by 20% is a petty reasonable era adjustment and makes him average 36 with the bat and 30 with the ball, which is somewhere around Flintoff level with the ball and Stokes level with the bat).
 

JOJOXI

State Vice-Captain
Yeah I was stuck between a rock and a hard place for my last pick. I could get a gun batsman but then I'd have had to wildcard to a keeper last round and been locked into playing Noble as my fourth bowler. By wild carding to a keeper this round I've placed myself in the worst position in the draft pick order but I might get another all rounder or pure bowler, which I would prefer.

I think my side will end up pretty good regardless of who I get (my top 5 is arguably the strongest in the game) but I'd like another bowling option, even if its not great. I can always bat Noble lower and rely on him more as a bowler though. After all, he took well over 4 wpm, which puts him into ATG category for wpm, even if his bowling average is flattered by his era (inflating his bowling and batting by 20% is a petty reasonable era adjustment and makes him average 36 with the bat and 30 with the ball, which is somewhere around Flintoff level with the ball and Stokes level with the bat).
Guess the one thing with those 2 comparisons is Flintoff probably a bowler remembered for spells and great moments rather than consistent greatness and Stokes still playing with his batting average on the up but certainly 36 average more then good enough for a likely lower middle-order batsman but wonder if a rough updated average of 30 would be great if they are 4th best bowler - also always tough comparing eras when it comes to voting - nostalgia can be a factor for past eras but at the same time lesser seen players of past eras can only impress you statistically and not so much visually. Either way would be very surprised if you didn't get that bowling option.
 

stephen

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah we'll see I guess. Noble was considered the greatest Australian all rounder of all time in his day and he still might be, if you don't count Gilchrist. In an ATG draft it's hard to know how to place a player like him. Much easier to put a McGrath at 11 and Ponting at 4 than to know what to do with a Kapil/Noble/Rhodes/Flintoff. 7 always feels right but you feel you are one bowler or batter short in an ATG side.
 

JOJOXI

State Vice-Captain
Yeah we'll see I guess. Noble was considered the greatest Australian all rounder of all time in his day and he still might be, if you don't count Gilchrist. In an ATG draft it's hard to know how to place a player like him. Much easier to put a McGrath at 11 and Ponting at 4 than to know what to do with a Kapil/Noble/Rhodes/Flintoff. 7 always feels right but you feel you are one bowler or batter short in an ATG side.
Probably highlights the value in someone like an Andy Flower/Sangakkara (although I prefer sides with Sanga without the gloves as he was pushing incredible numbers as a specialist bat but they help to free up a slot lower in the batting order and with few natural number 7 specialist bats helps to incorporate that 5th bowling option and allrounder who isn't quite an Imran/Hadlee with the ball or a Sobers/Kallis with the bat.
 

stephen

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah but I really don't like non specialist keepers used as fill ins. De Villiers, Sangakkara and Walcott are the most used in this category and I really don't like it (even though I've done it myself). They were batsmen who kept for a while and is rather see Dujon/Healy/Boucher instead.

Come to think of it I'm going to make a rule for future drafts I run - only a player who had kept wicket for over 50% of their career may be picked as keeper.
 

JOJOXI

State Vice-Captain
Yeah but I really don't like non specialist keepers used as fill ins. De Villiers, Sangakkara and Walcott are the most used in this category and I really don't like it (even though I've done it myself). They were batsmen who kept for a while and is rather see Dujon/Healy/Boucher instead.
Agreed, I almost done it with Walcott in a recent draft - think I picked a keeper with my 2nd last/last pick (a double pick I think it was). I guess the benefit of those names you first mentioned from a drafting perspective is you could pick any of those 3 and they are ATG batsman and serviceable keepers. Then you have some flexibility with later picks and you don't have to pick any keeper just because they are a keeper. The bits I've seen of Sangakkara keeping (I'm young so I've mostly seen Sanga the pure batsman) have been decent to be fair but you can probably take say 15 runs of his average as soon as you give him the gloves (possibly more - but just factoring in him as a pure batsman probably saw better results because of the lack of gloves but also just career improvement). Is it worth losing 15+ runs an innings from a batsman when most drafts will see at least 1 or 2 batsman below ATG level arguably better to have a keeper averaging say 30 then a decent batsman averaging 40 but Sanga averaging 15+ runs less. Although this is all easier said than done until its your own team and ABD/Sangakarra as keeper is a nice 'shortcut' to solve other areas.

Edit - then there are the actual tough chances a specialist keeper can take that a part-time/on-off keeper might not - guess the thing is its so hard to quantify how many runs they cost/bring - seems like there are far fewer metrics around keeping then other areas although seen the odd CricViz piece with interesting numbers on runs saved/conceded by keepers.
 

stephen

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah I mostly don't like how it devalues keeping as a profession. By having players like Sanga/ Walcott etc... as a keeper it also doesn't show just how much of a freak Gilchrist was. An ATG keeper paired with an ATVG batsman was crazy. Flower was a good keeper with an ATG batsman. Most other keepers that should be considered great don't even get picked in many drafts because there's a batsman picked instead.

Some of it comes down to the changing attitudes, some of it comes with an awareness of older players like Cameron and Lindsay who most people don't know about but are familiar names to frequent drafters. But it's been ages since I've seen Healy picked in a draft and he was voted Australia's best keeper of the 20th century!
 

Fuller Pilch

International Vice-Captain
Yeah but I really don't like non specialist keepers used as fill ins. De Villiers, Sangakkara and Walcott are the most used in this category and I really don't like it (even though I've done it myself). They were batsmen who kept for a while and is rather see Dujon/Healy/Boucher instead.

Come to think of it I'm going to make a rule for future drafts I run - only a player who had kept wicket for over 50% of their career may be picked as keeper.
I reckon unless they were regular keepers as 1sf class level but played lots of tests as specialist batsmen. I can think of quite a few players like that.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Mudassar Nazar (38.09) will open with Katich and protect the superstar middle order from the new ball and will also chip in with vital wickets and spell as a medium pacer, keeping in mind the theme of an allrounder side.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Mudassar Nazar
Simon Katich
Ken Barrington
Greg Chappell
Keith Miller
Aubrey Faulkner
MS Dhoni © (wk)
Neil Wagner
Joel Garner
Muttiah Muralitharan
 

JOJOXI

State Vice-Captain
Away from Laptop so will put my full squad down later this afternoon/early evening (UK Time) by editing this post.

Wildcard - Justin Langer (45.27) - edited from Barry Richards which was an ineligible pick




Sunil Gavaskar
Justin Langer
George Headley
Kevin Pietersen
Clive Lloyd (c)
Andy Flower (wk)
Chris Cairns
Billy Bates
Curtly Ambrose
Dennis Lillee
Bob Willis

Summary

Minus Billy Bates - who even then averages 27 with the bat and has 10 FC centuries and averages 16 with the ball, both figures need inflating but whilst he certainly wasn't a pick I favoured his numbers are still very impressive and given we have Cairns as a 4th seamer I still think we have a strong attack. Lillee and Ambrose undeniable ATGs with Willis doing incredibly well too with over 300 Test wickets. Chris Cairns helps balance the side with 5 Test hundreds (4 of them from number 7) and ensures as a 4th seamer the pressure isn't wasted if batting lineups get through the other pacers.

Very happy with my top 3 of Gavaskar, Langer and Headley, KP is a gamechanger and Clive Lloyd a number 5 I'm very happy with along with being a great leader. Andy Flower as keeper at 6 ensures we have at least 4 ATGs in the top 6 and you could probably make a case for all 6 depending on quite how great an ATG has to be in your book.
 
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JOJOXI

State Vice-Captain
Edited my pick didnt even think Richards would still be available until looking at previous page although with his high average I guess it makes sense
 

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