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CW's Ranking of All-Rounders (Tests)

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
I apparently slept through the entire Sobers vote, that aside I truly am sulrised by how close this vote is.

Some other observations before I get to the meat of the matter, why isn't Gilchrist (and the other wicketkeeper bats included as all rounders, just wondering. If we ever do a wicket keeping ranking, it will probably be based on their glove skills.

I generally grade all rounders based primarily on the strength of their primary skills and their all round game there after.

Imran was clearly a better bowler than Kallis was a batsman, though Kallis is criminally underrated as a batsman and his production was among the best as well.

CW generally rates lower order batting higher than fifth bowing skills while I see them as being pretty even. Looking at their hundreds vs five wicket hauls (secondary skills), it is pretty evident that Kallis's fifers (5) were more impactful that Imran's tons (4 during his bowling days)

So it's one apiece and looking at their tertiary skills, it's apparent where I will fall between Kallis's catches vs Imran's captaincy. So taking all three into consideration it's slight advantage towards Kallis, but it even as I do place greater emphasis on the primary skills. Though must be noted that Imran was noted to be below par in the field.

One last consideration is that Sobers is acknowledged to be the best, and on face value, Kallis's numbers are almost equal to Sobers, so it can be argued that he should just slip into second place, but the was a couple tiers below Sobers as a batsman and far less impactful as a bowler. And while both were brilliant in the slips, Sobers was equally exceptional everywhere in the field while Kallis was just a bit behind there.

It can be further argued that Imran has a stronger claim to an ATG first XI, but it's not a lock and both would be locks for any 2nd XI. Though if just judged on their primary skills Imran more so that Jacques.

It's really close, so while I do prefer Kallis's all-round game, think I have to go for Imran here, but just barely.
 

trundler

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CW generally rates lower order batting higher than fifth bowing skills while I see them as being pretty even. Looking at their hundreds vs five wicket hauls (secondary skills), it is pretty evident that Kallis's fifers (5) were more impactful that Imran's tons (4 during his bowling days)
Two of those 5fers were against Bangladesh though. Imran's centuries came against West Indies, India (lol bowling), England and Australia. We can exclude the last two centuries as you did but still, I'd say he was better in his secondary skill than Kallis ever was, barring the initial no rounder phase though Kallis had a forgettable start to his career as well.
 

subshakerz

International Coach
Kallis has been underrated for so long in his career that posters have begun to overrate him post-career and recently to compensate IMO.
 

akilana

International 12th Man
I saw Kallis pretty much all of his career. Its not like he was in a shabby batting lineup that forced him to do damage control all the time. Or its not like he was in Dravid's situation where he was supposed to be the rock around which flashier batsmen would bat around.

Kallis was the main man in a decent batting lineup but he pretty much batted in a dour fashion which set a tone for much of the batting in general.
don't make excuse for Dravid. I saw Dravid all of his career too. He was just as dour or even more.
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
Two of those 5fers were against Bangladesh though. Imran's centuries came against West Indies, India (lol bowling), England and Australia. We can exclude the last two centuries as you did but still, I'd say he was better in his secondary skill than Kallis ever was, barring the initial no rounder phase though Kallis had a forgettable start to his career as well.
Yes two of Kallis's five wicket hauls were against Bangladesh, and one literally the last 5 wickets of the innings. That being said, of Imran's hundreds, two came in scores of about 700 with at least 2 other centuries scored those innings. Hence why I used the word impactful.
 

akilana

International 12th Man
Have to also factor that Kallis was a notorious minnow basher. Once you take out Zimbabwe and Bangladesh, his batting average is 52 and bowling average is 35. So it's not like even the raw average difference between him and Imran is that huge either, though I think this is a bogus metric.
kind of misleading. He averages 53 if you ignore Bangaladesh and Zimbabwe, which is higher than most ATGs overall averages. But he averages 56 since the start of 2000 against non-minnows over 126 test matches.
 

Pap Finn Keighl

International Debutant
Overall cricketers

Sobers >> Procter > Hadlee > Imran > Kapil > Botham > Miller > Kallis > Pollock

As Allrounder

Sobers >> Procter > Kapil > Botham > Miller > Imran > Hadlee > Kallis > Pollock
 

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