Chris Read another chance?

[Richard]

take it as whatever you want, anyone whos watched the series closely enough would realise that jones outperformed flintoff in the last test, while the latter did so in the first 2. the only reason he had a better average was because he performed far better than flintoff in the last test, and was fortunate enough to come in a comfortable situation in the 2nd inning of the 2nd test.

Of course Flintoff was slightly better in the first 2 Tests - but Flintoff didn't exactly come in in a difficult situation in The Second Test, either, did he? Both of them were poor in The First Test, both played appalling strokes for no runs in the first-innings, and Jones did better than Flintoff in The Third.
So overall, the abiding impression was of Jones doing a bit better than Flintoff.

 

[tooextracool]

Of course Flintoff was slightly better in the first 2 Tests - but Flintoff didn't exactly come in in a difficult situation in The Second Test, either, did he? .

no he didnt come in a difficult situation but he didnt come in to bat in a comfortable situation where you were expected to throw your bat around, which is what jones did. he came in when england were effectively 121/4 after a mini collapse, certainly another wicket and england would have been in serious trouble. he then played an extremely mature innings, the type that he played at old trafford against the WI and helped england get into a good position and let jones cut loose and play his strokes freely, something that he enjoys doing- almost brainlessly at times. certainly a mature inning under pressure is far better than a carefree inning under no pressure.

Both of them were poor in The First Test, both played appalling strokes for no runs in the first-innings, and Jones did better than Flintoff in The Third..

flintoff got 35 in the first inning of the first test, jones got barely anything.

So overall, the abiding impression was of Jones doing a bit better than Flintoff.

the overall impression was that jones played outperformed flintoff in 1 test and did worse than flintoff in 2. hence theres absolutely no way that he could have performed better than flintoff throughout the series. and incidentally you said that jones had been batting better than flintoff for the last 3 games, something which he clearly never did.

 

[tooextracool]

No, we didn't - but after that First Test the series was much closer than I think anyone - certainly me - expected..

the outcome of the series(2-1) made it appear closer than it was. the fact is that it would have in all likelyhood have been 3-0 had cronje not been so generous. the problem was that we played extremely poorly in the first test and face it it was in unfair conditions and this led to everyone believing that we would be hammered 4-0, but the fact is that SA were helped by winning the toss.

I never said it was a close series when no-one expected it to be, just that everyone expected it to be a total trampling and it wasn't - just a pretty comfortable victory.
Even in the Third Test in which we were thoroughly outplayed we certainly had our moments - such as before Klusener came in and when Atherton and Hussain were hammering it everywhere.

which is precisely the point. no one expected england to be whitewashed, but most people thought that they would lose in the 2-0 to 3-0 range, and well they did effectively lose 2-0 in 4 games.

 

[marc71178]

You can never, ever gurantee that - as demonstrated by today's play - who would have guessed England would dominate most of it so much?
Not many, that's who. South Africa apparently "had the momentum", but England turned it around. I'd not be too surprised to see South Africa continue to do so tomorrow morning.

Erm, I think there's a difference between half an hour at the end of a day when England had dominated with the bat and were in a great position and a weeks break between games.

Although, even today showed how a late wicket can bring another one - which kind of supports what I was saying.

 

[marc71178]

And another 2 yesterday and today

 

[sledger]

what of jones now ? many suggest that he will be dropped in favour of read. I dont think its fair to drop him to be honest, and at a time when englad really need a batsman in that position i think it would be incredibly unwise for them to drop him now, however i think a return in the ODIs may be on the cards.

 

[marc71178]

If, as looks very likely, we don't win this match, it'll conceivably be the second game he's cost us this series - how many more drops can we take?

 

[sledger]

a few more yet i say, he cannot be dropped, his runs with the bat could be priceless esspecially in the innings tommorow morning. if he fails there then the writing could be on the wall for him.

 

[marc71178]

His runs have dried up recently though.

 

[Link]

But, it was going to be unlikely for jones to keep up that average of 50 or so for over a period of time. Otherwise he could get into the team on his batting. His batting is alright to be fair

 

[marc71178]

It's alright, but it's still not sensible at times, he needs to be building rather than swinging away from ball 1.

 

[wpdavid]

But, it was going to be unlikely for jones to keep up that average of 50 or so for over a period of time. Otherwise he could get into the team on his batting. His batting is alright to be fair

Jones' batting has been far from alright in this series, 2nd innings in Durban excepted. I'm prepared to believe he has more ability than Read as a batsman, but it hasn't amounted to much in terms of runs in the book now that we're facing a decent attack.

 

[sledger]

so after that score of 13 this morning is jones's time up?, in my opinion btw his batting is better than average. Hes the best wicket keeper batsman england have at their disposal, at test level anyway seeing as Read can perform with the bat in the ODIs

 

[tooextracool]

Hes the best wicket keeper batsman england have at their disposal, at test level anyway seeing as Read can perform with the bat in the ODIs

what has matt prior been doing in domestic cricket lately? played the 1 ODI in zimbabwe and got 30 odd.

 

[sledger]

what has matt prior been doing in domestic cricket lately? played the 1 ODI in zimbabwe and got 30 odd.

is he really upto the job though, wouldnt james foster be ahead of him in the pecking order?

 

[tooextracool]

never seen matt prior play.
foster IMO wasnt a good enough batsman at the intl level.

 

[marc71178]

One things for certain, I don't think Jones' position is as safe as it was.

 

[sledger]

One things for certain, I don't think Jones' position is as safe as it was.

agreed, however i think that it is safer than Reads was at the start of the tour of the west indies last year.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Well, he's got to sort out the "going for Marcus' catches and spilling them" issues...

 

[BoyBrumby]

Well, he's got to sort out the "going for Marcus' catches and spilling them" issues...

Not to mention his "not scoring enough runs to justify the drops & the byes" issue!