Can anyone tell me when...

[tooextracool]

Showed it in bits - you mean in between the times where he averaged 100 and 72, he took 6 for 156 and 4 for 33?
And usually just bowling with a bit of fire "impresses" Stephen Waugh. Even though Craig White bowled far better than Harmison at any point in the series, Harmison was the one who supposedly "impressed" the Australians.

harmison impressed the australians largely because they felt that he had potential to become a good fast bowler in the future.....craig white bowled better yes, you dont need to convince me about craig white, but the fact is that he was near the end of his career anyways.

 

[tooextracool]

Quite clearly, eh? You mean his average dropping from an abysmal 50 to a very, very poor 40

theres no discounting that flintoff will probably never be a consistent wicket taker at the test match level because of his "heavy ball" bowling but the fact is that he is still a handy 2nd change bowler to have and is capable of keeping one end tight. he is still a far better bowler in terms of accuracy than he was 2-3 years ago.

 

[Richard]

Except this is talking about before he started getting the wickets...

He started getting wickets against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh the minute he started bowling at them!
Though it is true to say that the Bangladesh match was after the wicket-taking spree against Test-standard teams started.

 

[Richard]

Lol !!!

I'd be laughing if I saw Hayden being knocked-over for single-figures time and again by Saggers - which would happen if Saggers bowled like he can at Hayden.

 

[Swervy]

I'd be laughing if I saw Hayden being knocked-over for single-figures time and again by Saggers - which would happen if Saggers bowled like he can at Hayden.

that is funny

 

[Langeveldt]

I'd be laughing if I saw Hayden being knocked-over for single-figures time and again by Saggers - which would happen if Saggers bowled like he can at Hayden.

Erm... Eh??

Maybe we are thinking of different Hayden's.. that would explain it

 

[Swervy]

Erm... Eh??

Maybe we are thinking of different Hayden's.. that would explain it

it makes sense...hayden...averages 58 in tests, has scored 20 centuries in 95 test innings,has scored over 5000 runs in 55 tests would be no match for the competent 32 year old county bowler Saggers

 

[marc71178]

I'd be laughing if I saw Hayden being knocked-over for single-figures time and again by Saggers - which would happen if Saggers bowled like he can at Hayden.

You can guarantee that can you?

Saggers knows how to bowl and take wickets in County Cricket, and is a damn good bowler, but taking wickets in Test matches is a lot different.

Not even the most ardent of Saggers supporters would make such ludicrous claims as that.

 

[marc71178]

He started getting wickets against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh the minute he started bowling at them!

Of course he could hardly take wickets without bowling to them

What I said was that he was outperforming the rest of the attack as a whole before those series, and thus shouldn't have been the first head on the chopping block.

In fact of all the nations he's opposed (7 so far by the way), only against Australia has he not out-performed the rest of the attack (and even then his economy rate was 3.43 compared with 4.22, and the team as a whole were taking wickets at about 47 or so a time)

Of course, his continual wicket-hauls are now increasingly becoming a source of amusement after your proclamations and long may it continue to sow you up is what I say.

 

[tooextracool]

it makes sense...hayden...averages 58 in tests, has scored 20 centuries in 95 test innings,has scored over 5000 runs in 55 tests would be no match for the competent 32 year old county bowler Saggers

yes the same hayden that came to england in the form of his life in 01 and only averaged 33....i can see a case for hayden failing in england, although i wouldnt guarantee it and definetly not of saggers bowling.....

 

[Richard]

it makes sense...hayden...averages 58 in tests, has scored 20 centuries in 95 test innings,has scored over 5000 runs in 55 tests would be no match for the competent 32 year old county bowler Saggers

The 33-year-old Hayden, I might remind you.
The outstanding county bowler Saggers, I might also remind you.
Saggers swings the ball, lots, Hayden has been shown time and again to be very, very vulnerable to deliveries like the one which Saggers bowled to Richardson at Headingley in the first-innings.
That is the reason I say Saggers would murder Hayden if he bowled at him with a new ball in England.

 

[Richard]

You can guarantee that can you?

Saggers knows how to bowl and take wickets in County Cricket, and is a damn good bowler, but taking wickets in Test matches is a lot different.

Not even the most ardent of Saggers supporters would make such ludicrous claims as that.

No, I can't gurantee that - no-one can gurantee anything - that is why I said "if" Saggers bowled as he can.
Taking the wicket of Matthew Hayden is very simple, in any form of cricket - pitch the ball up, swing it into him (or, as Caddick has demonstrated actually quite well, bang it in short early on to induce a compulsive hook).
Saggers happens to be very good at doing that when given a new ball in England.

 

[Mister Wright]

yes the same hayden that came to england in the form of his life in 01 and only averaged 33....i can see a case for hayden failing in england, although i wouldnt guarantee it and definetly not of saggers bowling.....

In Hayden's defence he did have a knee injury which prevented him from getting as forward as he usually does and he was batting with an openning partner who was self-destructing both personally and professionally.

But yes, he did seem to struggle on the English pitches, something I'm sure he will rectify come next year.

 

[Richard]

Of course he could hardly take wickets without bowling to them

What I said was that he was outperforming the rest of the attack as a whole before those series, and thus shouldn't have been the first head on the chopping block.

In fact of all the nations he's opposed (7 so far by the way), only against Australia has he not out-performed the rest of the attack (and even then his economy rate was 3.43 compared with 4.22, and the team as a whole were taking wickets at about 47 or so a time)

Of course, his continual wicket-hauls are now increasingly becoming a source of amusement after your proclamations and long may it continue to sow you up is what I say.

The main reason his economy-rate against Australia was so low was because of his extraordinary ability to spray usually 2 balls an over down leg - not even Ponting can reasonably be expected to score off them.
For the first half of the series against Australia, his bowling average was 100, for all but the last innings of the South Africa series it was 72 (and even at the end of the series there were 3 bowlers with better averages than him).
So, as I have shown time and again, it is largely the case that Harmison was the worst of a bad bunch with end-of-series redemption followed by weak-team redemption up to the Caribbean tour, and thereafter what came before becomes largely insignificant. Because recent success eclipses past failure, except if your name is Mark Ramprakash.

 

[marc71178]

Taking the wicket of Matthew Hayden is very simple, in any form of cricket

Which explains his Test average being in excess of 50 then.

If only it were that simple...

 

[Andre]

Hayden has been shown time and again to be very, very vulnerable to deliveries like the one which Saggers bowled to Richardson at Headingley in the first-innings.
That is the reason I say Saggers would murder Hayden if he bowled at him with a new ball in England.

Saggers may murder Langer, who struggles with the ball swinging into him - see AA, Australia vs India 03/04.

Hayden, meanwhile, murders most inswing but struggles against outswingers, so I imagine he would eat Saggers for breakfast.

 

[Tom Halsey]

To be honest, I don't see Saggers murdering anyone...

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Taking the wicket of Matthew Hayden is very simple, in any form of cricket

You should send out your resume. I'm sure Shoaib, Vaas, Pollock, Ntini etc. would all be itching for your intuitive instructions. Hayden is a muppet.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Taking the wicket of Matthew Hayden is very simple, in any form of cricket

You should send out your resume. I'm sure Shoaib, Vaas, Pollock, Ntini etc. would all be itching for your intuitive instructions. Hayden is a muppet.

What's that you say? A muppet who averages over 55 in Test cricket?

Ah, but he's never met Martin "35.28 per Test wicket" Saggers.

 

[marc71178]

Ah but Liam, Saggers has never had the luxury of cheap wickets against the minnows like Bangladesh.