Boycott's bombshell

[Zinzan]

although they still have had a few one day specialists over the years....Knight and Fairbrother to name a couple.

 

[Scaly piscine]

How exactly have they shown that they do better in pressure situations? Your premise seems to be based around 2 matches, the CT semi-final (didn't they choke in the final there ) and the Natwest final tie against Australia where they were lucky to get the tie due to GJones and Collingwood after the top-order had collapsed (or choked?) against the Lee and McGrath.
No matter what you've deluded yourself into thinking, England are a middle-of-the-road ODI side, nothing more.

They lost the CT final because they only had 2 bowlers basically - I'd be amazed if Gough and Wharf are in the WC 2007 team. I don't see what was 'lucky' about the tie, if Collingwood hadn't slipped England would probably have won. If England are a 'middle-of-the-road' side how come they're the only side in about 6 years to not roll over in a ODI tournament final against Australia? Whatever you delude yourself into thinking I'll be around to remind you all of these comments over the next year and a bit.

 

[Tom Halsey]

So England being 6th in the rankings (soon to be 7th) with 6 wins and 7 losses in 2005 (3 of the wins being against Bangladesh) - makes them the 2nd best team in the world then?

Yes but we've played Australia a lot in 2005, so the record is not as good as it otherwise would be, and we lost games to SA due to playing rubbish players (was that in 2005 or late 2004?).

And beating Bangladesh is clearly a big achievement, after all they bat Australia. ()

 

[Pratters]

Yes but we've played Australia a lot in 2005, so the record is not as good as it otherwise would be, and we lost games to SA due to playing rubbish players (was that in 2005 or late 2004?).

And beating Bangladesh is clearly a big achievement, after all they bat Australia. ()

I have another way of looking at it all. You have played Bangladesh a lot as well. And lost to a team on some ocassions (Australia) who lost to Bangladesh!

 

[Tom Halsey]

Bah, we're rubbish!

 

[Jono]

The Pakistan ODI series will go a long way in determining just how good England are IMO.

 

[Dasa]

They lost the CT final because they only had 2 bowlers basically - I'd be amazed if Gough and Wharf are in the WC 2007 team. I don't see what was 'lucky' about the tie, if Collingwood hadn't slipped England would probably have won. If England are a 'middle-of-the-road' side how come they're the only side in about 6 years to not roll over in a ODI tournament final against Australia? Whatever you delude yourself into thinking I'll be around to remind you all of these comments over the next year and a bit.

Hey, I'll be happy to accept that England are a cut above IF they can prove it in their performance. The fact as of now is they simply haven't, and any English fan (or any cricket fan - look at what everyone else is saying) with sense would agree that right now, England are in the pack with the rest bar Australia and the minnows. Meanwhile, I think I need more than two matches (which certainly don't conclusively 'prove' your assertion) and some poor excuses to convince me that England are no.2 in ODIs.

 

[honestbharani]

Returning back to the topic, I caught Boycott's programme after the 4th ODI vs Sri Lanka and he talked a lot more sense then. Maybe he was just drunk the other day.


It is obvious that SL struggle away from home in ODIs, even though they are ranked no.2. Cricinfo's stats have shown that. But I still don't think India have defeated SL at home too much since the 96 WC... So, I still think it was a creditable effort on India's part.

 

[social]

Err did you even bother to look at the performances of England against Australia? It's pretty obvious to most people that England have used ODIs to help the progress of future Test players, they've not really taken ODIs seriously until the series against Australia..

Utter nonsense - they pick their best potential ODI players (Collingwood, Lewis, Solanki, etc) with total disregard for their potential as test players. In contrast, they omit established test players (Jones, Hoggard, etc) if they dont feel they have potential as ODI players.

Face it, England, until proven otherwise, are an ordinary ODI unit.

 

[tooextracool]

Oh and in that same trophy England lost to WI, so are WI thus better than England? No. Last year SL lost 3-2 to Australia in the ODIs at home, the same as England (with a tie). So why is England better than?

for one thing....when SL actually wins a game away from home they might actually be rated even near the 2nd best ODI team in the world.

 

[tooextracool]

We didn't have many of our best players against SA, hence we got mauled, same in last summer's Triangular tournament. Other than that, our results have been good.

i'd personally like to hear about these 'many of our best players'......
and i'd like to know how a side containing strauss, geraint,gough, vaughan etc are the 2nd best ODI side in the world.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Utter nonsense - they pick their best potential ODI players (Collingwood, Lewis, Solanki, etc) with total disregard for their potential as test players. In contrast, they omit established test players (Jones, Hoggard, etc) if they dont feel they have potential as ODI players.

They omit Hoggard because he's a rubbish ODI bowler. Simon Jones has played in the ODI side since he's come back from his injury. Robert Key played in ODIs, Bell has played in ODIs, Gareth Batty has played in ODIs, Mahmood has played in ODIs - none of them particularly have ODI potential.

 

[Tom Halsey]

i'd personally like to hear about these 'many of our best players'......
and i'd like to know how a side containing strauss, geraint,gough, vaughan etc are the 2nd best ODI side in the world.

Because Strauss is a vey good ODI player actually, even if he might not have the stats to back it up - granted the rest aren't great. My point was that we were playing Kabir, Blackwell, etc and they're not in our best side.

 

[Jono]

for one thing....when SL actually wins a game away from home they might actually be rated even near the 2nd best ODI team in the world.

I realise that, and I don't rate SL as the 2nd best. No team is clearly 2nd best IMO. I was just using that as an example that claiming because England won 2 ODIs against Australia they are the better team, when SL did the exact same thing.

 

[greg]

i'd personally like to hear about these 'many of our best players'......
and i'd like to know how a side containing strauss, geraint,gough, vaughan etc are the 2nd best ODI side in the world.

England are nowhere near the second best ODI side in the World. Anyone saying otherwise is talking nonsense. They may potentially have a pretty good team but that is a very different thing.

 

[Jono]

Because Strauss is a vey good ODI player actually, even if he might not have the stats to back it up - granted the rest aren't great. My point was that we were playing Kabir, Blackwell, etc and they're not in our best side.

Very good? That's some loose use of those words. He's decent IMO.

 

[chris.hinton]

We are the World Champions

 

[luckyeddie]

We are the World Champions

Who - Worcestershire?

 

[tooextracool]

Because Strauss is a vey good ODI player actually, even if he might not have the stats to back it up - granted the rest aren't great. My point was that we were playing Kabir, Blackwell, etc and they're not in our best side.

can you please explain to me how strauss is a very good ODI player? hes failed miserably in almost every ODI hes played in and yet hes apparently done a better job than solanki and the rest of the players who've opened the batting for England.
and you said that we were missing 'many of our best players' in SA, i'd love to hear about these players, and no matter how hard you try, flintoff only counts as one player. fact is the england side that played in the ODIs this summer as well as in the champions trophy last year, isnt significantly better than the side that got humiliated in SA.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Who - Worcestershire?

Faisalabad Wolves of course. I'm sure hinton is a fan.