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Australia, South Africa ...

Maximas

Cricketer Of The Year
http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cri...ext-side-win-test-series-against-top-4-a.html

Seeing this 2010 thread pop up in the NZ/WI tour thread got me thinking. Basically, we probably have two teams who are pretty comfortably the two best teams going around, Australia by virtue of their recent outstanding form, and South Africa because of their dominance around the world in the last 4-5 years. However, once we look past those two teams it becomes harder to separate the next few teams. Rankings give a decent indicator of the quality of teams, but if every team was to square off home and away tomorrow (in tests) what do you think the rankings would look like if those tests were the only basis point, basically - what is your test rankings table right now. For me...

3. England slot in reasonably comfortably at third, while their winter was obviously awful, they were very solid leading up to it and I don't think they'll have too much trouble at home this summer, but with all the changes and the like you never know.

4-7. This is where it starts to get very tricky, because I find it very difficult to separate India, SL, NZ and Pakistan. I'd say the recent SL-Pak series showed those two teams to be very even, but with the 2012 victory to SL at home I'd say they have the slight edge. India thumped NZ at home, but then NZ returned the favour (although not as emphatically), so it's not easy to separate those two, and then India haven't played SL or Pakistan in tests for a while, so it's tricky to separate them. SL managed to take a test of South Africa on their tour, while India and NZ and Pakistan failed to, but on the other hand the all three SC teams got thumped in Australia while NZ won at Hobart to level their series there. If NZ continue to be inept in the SC it's hard to make a case for them being above the others, (you can point to their 1-1 series in SL but they also failed to beat Bangladesh while SL didn't) then of course Pakistan are so damn sporadic, able to beat South Africa at home one test and lose to Zimbabwe the next, I really can't work out an order tbh.

8. West Indies are probably a tier below those four, while they had a good run for a bit there they played dismally in India as well as in NZ, while there is some hope with home conditions and better selection they could be much more competitive but for now I think we can place them at 8.

9-10. It's pretty hard to separate Bangladesh and Zim as well, their last series against each other in Zim resulted in an undercooked Bangladesh side getting thumped, then a well adjusted Bangladesh side beating Zim, but Zim managed to beat Pakistan while Bangladesh haven't managed to beat a major test nation at home or away recently.

While there's no test matches on now I thought it might be interesting to see what people thought about how the teams stack up next to each other.
 
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hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
yeah it's an interesting question.
You'd have to think Pakistan would have a decent shot at Australia later in the year, but yeah I don't really think of them as being better than India.
Honestly, I'm not so sure about England. I think they could even be susceptible to India if the latter manage to select their best test bowlers.

Yeah, I think I'm just going to go with India in that they have very close to the best batting lineup in world cricket and could sort out their bowlers in the mid-term future.
 
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Spark

Global Moderator
England we have to wait and see, their team has changed so rapidly that results from even a year ago aren't hugely meaningful.
 

Maximas

Cricketer Of The Year
India probably a good choice, I liked the sound of NZ as well but the thing with both teams is that their results are so good in friendly conditions but so bad in alien conditions. Although India probably had the better of both (4-nil whitewash of Aus at home, at least managed a draw in both SA and NZ).

As for England, I think their home record will continue to be ok, particularly this summer, but their ability to win test matches in the SC has been diminished significantly, KP and Swann were central to their wins in India and SL, it's hard to say really
 

Spark

Global Moderator
If England can't knock off SL at home then they have serious problems, and they really should be winning against India at home too - but IMO that's hardly guaranteed, as India have the look of a team on the up right now. In particular it's a safe bet to say that they'll bat about twenty times better than they did last time.

EDIT: On that note I'd have India a clear 4th at absolute worst, definitely above that "pack" you mention there.
 

Flem274*

123/5
England we have to wait and see, their team has changed so rapidly that results from even a year ago aren't hugely meaningful.
yeah this. Cook, Gap, Root, Bell, Gap, Stokes, Prior eventually but Gap, Broad, Gap, Gap, Anderson could go either way. They need to pick themselves off the dirt mentally as well.

WI will be in the chasing pack as much as anyone now they're putting the right bowlers on the sheet and have addressed the Sammy balance issue, at least until Chanderpaul and Gayle retire which will be soon.

Pakistan have some guns of all ages but a few I don't know much about. Misbah, Ajmal and Younis can't be far away from retiring so there is a lot on Junaid's shoulders.

SL are in the same boat as Pakistan and WI but have a joke pace attack. They have talented young batsmen to replace the big boys and Mathews is a gun but that attack...

NZ have youth and quality but play 8 a side cricket and their middle order batsmen are de facto openers.

India have a good mix imo. Established batting quality and Shami and Yadav are the goods.

Right now it's Pakistan and India for me with England and NZ chasing close but that could and probably will change very quickly and soon.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Ishant was a hero for you down here.

It must never be allowed to happen again, though if it continues you're fine imo.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
If it continues then we probably have more important things to worry about, such as the impeding arrival of four cloaked figures on horseback.
 

uvelocity

International Coach
dependant on conditions, nobody is a sure thing. saffers are still clearly number one imo and you can throw a blanket over the next three or four depending on conditions and luck/moon cycle/price of fish in china

aus will have lost all momentum with the big break. a couple of injuries on top could put us below a couple of sides at least.
 

Maximas

Cricketer Of The Year
SL are in the same boat as Pakistan and WI but have a joke pace attack. They have talented young batsmen to replace the big boys and Mathews is a gun but that attack...
I'm biased of course but I don't it's fair to lump SL in the same boat as WI when you compare the batting line-ups, with Herath propping up the attack at home I'd say the lack of fast bowling talent (which is being somewhat fixed with the improvement of Eranga and to some extent Lakmal) doesn't offset the batting advantage we have over WI and probably even Pakistan as well
 

Spark

Global Moderator
dependant on conditions, nobody is a sure thing. saffers are still clearly number one imo and you can throw a blanket over the next three or four depending on conditions and luck/moon cycle/price of fish in china

aus will have lost all momentum with the big break. a couple of injuries on top could put us below a couple of sides at least.
Our fast bowling depth is pretty incredible, though, and we finally seem to be getting a top six worth of the name (or at least, most of a top six). I'd say top two is accurate.
 

Maximas

Cricketer Of The Year
herath is 36 and eranga and lakmal have been moderately acceptable for a very short time.
Indeed, but if you refer to the OP I made a bit of a point about this being more of an immediate scenario so Herath's age shouldn't really matter. Eranga's career average is about 31 btw, he's done decently over his whole career really.
 

Maximas

Cricketer Of The Year
Our fast bowling depth is pretty incredible, though, and we finally seem to be getting a top six worth of the name (or at least, most of a top six). I'd say top two is accurate.
Lyon's development makes us more of a threat in the SC as well
 

smash84

The Tiger King
I'd say that that India, Pakistan, and England would be the pack below SA and Aus. NZ and SL closely following on the heels of that pack.

The biggest advantage that Pakistan have is that they have an attack that can take 20 wickets more regularly than the others. With Amir/Asif completing their bans next year a bowling pool of Gul, Amir, Asif, Junaid, Ajmal, Zulfi Babar, Irfan doesn't look too shabby. Batting obviously is a concern but Azhar Ali has a solid technique and I am hoping he will continue to grow as a batsman. Misbah and Younis will probably play for another 2 years so the middle order will be decent for the near future. Openers a real concern though.
 

morgieb

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I'd say that that India, Pakistan, and England would be the pack below SA and Aus. NZ and SL closely following on the heels of that pack.

The biggest advantage that Pakistan have is that they have an attack that can take 20 wickets more regularly than the others. With Amir/Asif completing their bans next year a bowling pool of Gul, Amir, Asif, Junaid, Ajmal, Zulfi Babar, Irfan doesn't look too shabby. Batting obviously is a concern but Azhar Ali has a solid technique and I am hoping he will continue to grow as a batsman. Misbah and Younis will probably play for another 2 years so the middle order will be decent for the near future. Openers a real concern though.
Isn't he 40?
 

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