All-Time World XIs: Discussion Thread

[Johan]

@Thala_0710 Also, what seprates Greenidge from Boycott and even Gavaskar is that he completely failed in the home of his strongest opposition, Australia and Pakistan, had he averaged 45+ in Australia and 35+ in Pakistan he'd be compared to Gavaskar but his failure knocks him two or three levels below.

 

[Thala_0710]

Wolverine voted Viv, not smith

My bad... Let's crown Viv and McGrath and get going then

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Most of Boycotts career was before the really hard era started tbh but Greenidge also avoided the reason why his era was so hard. They’re at a similar level though.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

My bad... Let's crown Viv and McGrath and get going then

Yea let’s move on to the next vote

 

[Johan]

at the end of the day, Boycott is some 48 averaging opener from England and Gavaskar a 50 averaging one from India, same era, successful away or home, similar career lengths and no real conditional deficiency in their record. All there is to it, period.

 

[kyear2]

@kyear2 please answer. It's a genuine question, not in any was trying to annoy you.

Barry actually played test cricket, played in the ROW tests, WSC and in county cricket which was the preeminent competition at the time and held an even greater place than odi's hold now as a secondary ranking for players. He even played in Australia for one season and broke every record.

He was exposed to and proved himself vs every great bowler of the era, and they accordingly rate him as the best of the era.

And if course one was the best batsman in the world for more than half a decade.

Van Der Bijl didnt have any of that. Nebe played tests and primarily stayed home and played in SA.

They're not comparable

 

[subshakerz]

I have issues with Hadlee's 1988-89 India tour for the same reason you've issues with Ambrose 1990 Pakistan series

I have more issues with the 84 WI series.

 

[Johan]

Most of Boycotts career was before the really hard era started tbh but Greenidge also avoided the reason why his era was so hard. They’re at a similar level though.

They aren't, Boycott slams Gower who in turn is a better batsman than Greenidge

 

[subshakerz]

at the end of the day, Boycott is some 48 averaging opener from England and Gavaskar a 50 averaging one from India, same era, successful away or home, similar career lengths and no real conditional deficiency in their record. All there is to it, period.

You rate Gavaskar ahead I recall

 

[Johan]

You rate Gavaskar ahead I recall

Yeah by a little bit.

 

[Thala_0710]

@Thala_0710 Also, what seprates Greenidge from Boycott and even Gavaskar is that he completely failed in the home of his strongest opposition, Australia and Pakistan, had he averaged 45+ in Australia and 35+ in Pakistan he'd be compared to Gavaskar but his failure knocks him two or three levels below.

Agree with Aus, but Pak had some ridiculously low scoring games in the first series he played in... And then his second tour was his last test tour ever.... (Again very low scoring btw) where he couldn't bat against any one anyway.. Never toured Pak in the first 11 years of his career when he was at his best... So don't hold that too much against him

 

[Johan]

I have more issues with the 84 WI series.

nah like I meant, Hadlee's big tour to India is also extremely low scoring and in a period where India was in transition, the batting average in his tour of India is 23, the batting average in Ambrose's series in Pakistan is 20, so I really think the same issue with Ambrose to Pak in 1990 applies to Hadlee to ind in 88.

 

[subshakerz]

Barry actually played test cricket, played in the ROW tests, WSC and in county cricket which was the preeminent competition at the time and held an even greater place than odi's hold now as a secondary ranking for players. He even played in Australia for one season and broke every record.

He was exposed to and proved himself vs every great bowler of the era, and they accordingly rate him as the best of the era.

And if course one was the best batsman in the world for more than half a decade.

Van Der Bijl didnt have any of that. Nebe played tests and primarily stayed home and played in SA.

They're not comparable

Huh? Van Der Bijl played extensively in the county circuit and had the rep of the best medium pacer of the era.

You are saying he can't be rated but Barry can because of 4 tests?That's a joke.

 

[Johan]

Agree with Aus, but Pak had some ridiculously low scoring games in the first series he played in... And then his second tour was his last test tour ever... Where he couldn't bat anyway.. Never toured Pak in the first 11 years of his career when he was at his best... So don't hold that too much against him

I get that, but no amount of adjustment is going to solve a 17 average, Imran, Viv, Raza, Miandad, Haynes etc all did miles better. He failed in the home series against Pakistan in 80s too. Big holes in the record, nowhere near Boycott.

 

[subshakerz]

nah like I meant, Hadlee's big tour to India is also extremely low scoring and in a period where India was in transition, the batting average in his tour of India is 23, the batting average in Ambrose's series in Pakistan is 20, so I really think the same issue with Ambrose to Pak in 1990 applies to Hadlee to ind in 88.

Well I have argued that Hadlees record is too much focused on Aus, Eng and NZ, with 70 percent of his cricket there.

And yes, in Ind and Pak he only has one great series out of three.

 

[Johan]

And yes, in Ind and Pak he only has one great series out of three.

and that happened to be an uber low scoring series vs a lineup through transition, same issue as Ambrose, never priven on conventional slow Asian wickets.

 

[subshakerz]

Yea let’s move on to the next vote

I gotta say, this is pretty ridiculous way of second round voting based on margins of single digit margins. You couldn't have waited for tiebreaker votes in the first round?

 

[Thala_0710]

Huh? Van Der Bijl played extensively in the county circuit

Not really, iirc he only played 1 county season in 1980 (exceptional season though) and then 1 game in 1981.

 

[subshakerz]

and that happened to be an uber low scoring series vs a lineup through transition, same issue as Ambrose, never priven on conventional slow Asian wickets.

Well at least you are seeing the light on Ambrose.

But I agree on Hadlee too. Probably why I think McGrath was slightly better in SC.

 

[Thala_0710]

I get that, but no amount of adjustment is going to solve a 17 average, Imran, Viv, Raza, Miandad, Haynes etc all did miles better. He failed in the home series against Pakistan in 80s too. Big holes in the record, nowhere near Boycott.

He does have some obvious holes in his record... But Boycott has deficiencies in his game as well