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4th Test at the Gabba, Brisbane, 15 - 19 Jan 2021

GoodAreasShane

International Captain
Didn't Labuschagne captain some youth teams when he was in the pathways setup?
He didn't ever play for Aus U19s, but I do tend to recall he may have led QLD U19s at some stage now that you mention it, would have to do a deep dive on MyCricket to be sure though
 

Senile Sentry

International Debutant
You do have to be ruthless to be a good cricket side.

That means that, if you're near or just after a milestone when batting, you don't lose concentration and throw your wicket away. That means that if you're 2/190 or 3/230, you actually put up that 400+ score that gets you on the glideslope to winning in Aus conditions. That means that, when you have a side 5-down or 6-down, you finish the job and secure that victory or first innings lead.

This team could do with a lot more ruthlessness. The fact that they act out when put under pressure instead of playing better cricket is the opposite of ruthless, really.
Yes, this is where Aus batting lost the plot. The likes of Smith or Labu failed to make the really big 100s even after getting set or making 100s even. They just couldn't get a total which would allow their bowlers to relax a bit and get the services of the sixth bowler, namely Scoreboard Pressure.

On that count, I read somewhere that a lot of time has passed since India conceded a 500 plus total to the opposition ? I think it has been like five or six years? Incredible if true.
 

Chrish

First Class Debutant
I am of the opinion that bowlers shouldn't be captains because they are more prone to injuries and, so at higher risk of missing out games/ series. Guys like Wasim, Pollock and Imran had phenomenal fitness which isn't common.

So, you want your batsman/ WK to be a captain; someone whose place is secure in the side. This criteria leaves only Smith, Warner and Marnus. The former two may not be eligible.

So, choice is obvious. Not saying he will make a good captain or even wants to be a captain; who knows?
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
The fact that they act out when put under pressure instead of playing better cricket is the opposite of ruthless, really.
True, but at the same time, it has to be condoned, especially that stupid throwing the ball at the batsman stuff. I swear no one does it as much and with as much ill will as Australia do in my time of watching cricket.

Paine whined about INdia not playing in Gabba and not playing day/night even last year when NZ and Pak were visiting here. I think the only person who whined about it more was Burgey here, lol. I definitely think they are just not good people and it just comes out when under the pump. You look at someone like Cummins on the other hand and you can see he is far more at peace over his talents and ability. Which is why I feel it is the right time to move to someone like Cummins.

Should add Paine does do a lot of things right and his apology was unprecedented and a real gesture on his part after SCG but just feels when under the pump, some of these players (Paine, Lyon, Haze esp.) just lash out at the opposition and then expect no consequences and it is now starting to impact the team and their results. Feel like even if it is just for a 2-3 years period, Cummins can be the guy who can change that and help this team and its players achieve their potential.
 

Senile Sentry

International Debutant
Wouldn't buy a Fujitsu air conditioner for everyone in his teams, dick

Seriously though I wouldn't remotely want either either Cummins or Labuschagne as captains, and both for the exact same reason, they haven't got captaincy experience at domestic level
Desperate times desperate measures. Cummins only need to captain till Carey gets a foothold in tests.
 

jimmy101

Cricketer Of The Year
I am of the opinion that bowlers shouldn't be captains because they are more prone to injuries and, so at higher risk of missing out games/ series. Guys like Wasim, Pollock and Imran had phenomenal fitness which isn't common.

So, you want your batsman/ WK to be a captain; someone whose place is secure in the side. This criteria leaves only Smith, Warner and Marnus. The former two may not be eligible.

So, choice is obvious. Not saying he will make a good captain or even wants to be a captain; who knows?
Surely the last thing they need is another mouthy captain.
 

Senile Sentry

International Debutant
True, but at the same time, it has to be condoned, especially that stupid throwing the ball at the batsman stuff. I swear no one does it as much and with as much ill will as Australia do in my time of watching cricket.

Paine whined about INdia not playing in Gabba and not playing day/night even last year when NZ and Pak were visiting here. I think the only person who whined about it more was Burgey here, lol. I definitely think they are just not good people and it just comes out when under the pump. You look at someone like Cummins on the other hand and you can see he is far more at peace over his talents and ability. Which is why I feel it is the right time to move to someone like Cummins.

Should add Paine does do a lot of things right and his apology was unprecedented and a real gesture on his part after SCG but just feels when under the pump, some of these players (Paine, Lyon, Haze esp.) just lash out at the opposition and then expect no consequences and it is now starting to impact the team and their results. Feel like even if it is just for a 2-3 years period, Cummins can be the guy who can change that and help this team and its players achieve their potential.
Yeah suffice to say a Paine and a lot of Aussies have ended up looking really bad and foolish after the chest thumping about Gabba and the like. Almost like they took it for granted, as if they just had to turn up and the opposition would crumble.

The egos shattered.
 

artvandalay

State Regular
Congrats to all fellow indians here. Going to be spending 1 whole day watching that innings again and read back as much of this thread as I can. We will remember this series similarly to the 2005 ashes while from an indian pov this is up there with Eden gardens. A few ghosts were exorcised too at least personally where I kept expecting it to go pear shaped like the chennai test against pakistan and the Sydney match where Clarke of all people denied us a win. Commiserations to the aussies but I expect them to beat saf.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
True, but at the same time, it has to be condoned, especially that stupid throwing the ball at the batsman stuff. I swear no one does it as much and with as much ill will as Australia do in my time of watching cricket.

Paine whined about INdia not playing in Gabba and not playing day/night even last year when NZ and Pak were visiting here. I think the only person who whined about it more was Burgey here, lol. I definitely think they are just not good people and it just comes out when under the pump. You look at someone like Cummins on the other hand and you can see he is far more at peace over his talents and ability. Which is why I feel it is the right time to move to someone like Cummins.

Should add Paine does do a lot of things right and his apology was unprecedented and a real gesture on his part after SCG but just feels when under the pump, some of these players (Paine, Lyon, Haze esp.) just lash out at the opposition and then expect no consequences and it is now starting to impact the team and their results. Feel like even if it is just for a 2-3 years period, Cummins can be the guy who can change that and help this team and its players achieve their potential.
This is really over-egging it tbh, a lot of what you describe here is merely human failings under pressure, when subject to a weak team culture in terms of imposing discipline with regards to these things. Obviously it's somewhat condoned long-term which is why it keeps happening, but it's hardly unique to Australia. England, for example, were pretty notorious for being very tetchy a few years back when put under pressure, particularly Broad and Anderson. Hubris is a real problem in the Australian cricket establishment, but you're being pretty myopic if you think if you think it's a unique problem.

And, as Cribb said last night, this is mostly tangential to why they lose games like this. Being "nicer" won't make them better batsmen in itself.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
I'll also reiterate what I said last night: if this team has an attitude problem, it's a quite different one to the ones Australian teams had in the past. The Waugh-Ponting-Clarke sides used hostility and nastiness as part of their broader cricketing strategy to intimidate the opposition psychologically and make Australia frankly unpleasant to play against, in much the same way as, say, a Jose Mourinho coached football team might use hostility and nastiness as part of their overall gamestyle.

Nastiness is most definitely not part of this team's overall game style. It's not like we saw any of this during the first four Tests in the 2019 Ashes, or last summer, which are the high water marks of this team. When they play well, they don't play "unpleasant" cricket in the sense of sledging, mouthing off, exploiting loopholes in the rules etc etc.

It's a sign that things are going very wrong, not something they're trying to actively employ. It shouldn't be bracketed in with the former teams' "nastiness".
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
This is really over-egging it tbh, a lot of what you describe here is merely human failings under pressure, when subject to a weak team culture in terms of imposing discipline with regards to these things. Obviously it's somewhat condoned long-term which is why it keeps happening, but it's hardly unique to Australia. England, for example, were pretty notorious for being very tetchy a few years back when put under pressure, particularly Broad and Anderson. Hubris is a real problem in the Australian cricket establishment, but you're being pretty myopic if you think if you think it's a unique problem.

And, as Cribb said last night, this is mostly tangential to why they lose games like this. Being "nicer" won't make them better batsmen in itself.
I am not talking about being "nicer" though. First of all, I think throwing the ball right at the batsman when there is no chance of a run out (usually need to throw the ball at the stumps and not at the batsman for that) should be downright illegal. And secondly, I dont think Cummins is "nicer" in that sense. He still bounced the hell out of Siraj and Saini, lol. I just feel he understands his own game better and perhaps even others' and seems to have the best perspective of the game itself. That can only help Australia.

I mentioned it last year when Paine was doing his passive-aggressive nonsense of "oh maybe if Virat is in a good mood, they will even agree to play at the Gabba" etc. It's what a player is made of, inside, that counts when made a captain. I feel Cummins is your best bet in that regard.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
I am not talking about being "nicer" though. First of all, I think throwing the ball right at the batsman when there is no chance of a run out (usually need to throw the ball at the stumps and not at the batsman for that) should be downright illegal. And secondly, I dont think Cummins is "nicer" in that sense. He still bounced the hell out of Siraj and Saini, lol. I just feel he understands his own game better and perhaps even others' and seems to have the best perspective of the game itself. That can only help Australia.

I mentioned it last year when Paine was doing his passive-aggressive nonsense of "oh maybe if Virat is in a good mood, they will even agree to play at the Gabba" etc. It's what a player is made of, inside, that counts when made a captain. I feel Cummins is your best bet in that regard.
See the edits to my post. I agree completely those throws should be illegal, and think Spikey's 5 penalty runs suggestion is a good one. Cut that **** out of the game. I wouldn't even be opposed to a clarification in the rules that made it clear that if the batsman is just finishing the shot and the bowler has the ball, he can't actually run the batsman out if they aren't taking a run, to eliminate the incentive to hurl the ball in that direction. I'm just saying that those incidents are an aberration away from their broader cricketing philosophy rather than something that's part of what they employ. It's symptomatic of the team playing bad cricket, not part of the plan. The problem here is not fundamentally an "attitude problem", it's a lack of discipline. Which comes back to poor leadership and poor coaching.

As for the Paine comments last year, I honestly think you're being really uncharitable there. I think they were intended as, and taken as, a very much tongue in cheek joke with no malice intended at all.
 
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honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
As for the Paine comments last year, I honestly think you're being really uncharitable there. I think they were intended as, and taken as, a very much tongue in cheek joke with no malice intended at all.
I guess you and I view this differently then. I mean, Paine mentioned about "powerful BCCI" even before the Sydney Test and was ready to bandy the same theory of India not wanting to play at The Gabba, even though I am sure he has much better knowledge of difficulties of the quarantine rules etc.

FWIW, I did not like Ashwin's tweet yesterday too. Maybe I am a bit old school, but I do prefer acting with dignity after you have won and while neither stuff (Paine's comments last year and this one about Gabba and India or Ash's tweet) is really bad in any obvious sorta way, I prefer letting things go once you have let your cricket do the talking, like Ash and India have done this series. They maybe, at worst, "cheeky" but it is a reason I would not want someone like Ash captaining India either. It shows there is a little bit of growing up still needed for these folks.

EDIT: Anyways, there are a lot of reasons I think Cummins should take over the captaincy sometime soon for Australia in tests. This is just one of them, and not even the main one.
 

Daemon

Request Your Custom Title Now!
FWIW, I did not like Ashwin's tweet yesterday too. Maybe I am a bit old school, but I do prefer acting with dignity after you have won and while neither stuff (Paine's comments last year and this one about Gabba and India or Ash's tweet) is really bad in any obvious sorta way, I prefer letting things go once you have let your cricket do the talking, like Ash and India have done this series. They maybe, at worst, "cheeky" but it is a reason I would not want someone like Ash captaining India either. It shows there is a little bit of growing up still needed for these folks.
Agreed. His wife's tweet was even worse lol but ofc she's not actually a player so she can say whatever she wants.

Anyways, at the end of the day all hb and pratters have been trying to say is that the Australian side has a lot of chutiyas, which I agree with completely.
 

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