18 county system isn't the way forward for English cricket

[fredfertang]

I'm beginning to sense a pattern here.

It's your legal training

 

[sledger]

It's your legal training

Was working as an open day guide yesterday Fred, saddened that you didn't pop into Foxhill for a chat.

 

[fredfertang]

I would have done if I'd been aware

but Foxhill!!! - 'twas a hall of residence in my time - the Law Dept was in Old Whiteknights House - I know Foxhill well though - used to spend some time with a lass from Penarth ........................ but that's distinctly OT

 

[sledger]

I would have done if I'd been aware

but Foxhill!!! - 'twas a hall of residence in my time - the Law Dept was in Old Whiteknights House - I know Foxhill well though - used to spend some time with a lass from Penarth ........................ but that's distinctly OT

Haha there's another one in October sometime iirc, I'll be up there on the door again.

Had no idea it used to be a halls though, blimey, must have been a nice one.

 

[fredfertang]

Haha there's another one in October sometime iirc, I'll be up there on the door again.

You'll have to keep me advised - would be interesting, if potentially embarassing, to see if any of the academic staff remember me

 

[sledger]

You'll have to keep me advised - would be interesting, if potentially embarassing, to see if any of the academic staff remember me

Haha we got a few peopel coming in saying how they remembered a load of staff from when they attended years ago, was quite amusing. Good day though, not the hardest I've ever had to work for some money, but yeah, will let you know when the next one is.

 

[GIMH]

As if you've ever worked hard for money, ****

 

[Richard]

If domestic OD performances always equated international success. Blokes like Ali Brown, Loye, Ealham, Alleyne, A Hollioke, Irani should have been stars. But you know what happened..

Alleyne, for all his natural talent, was never a star at domestic OD level. Alistair Brown likewise. So it's no surprise they didn't star at international level either. Loye never got a chance - he was 34 before he made his debut FFS. Ealham was a very fine ODI player for a time and would have been for much, much longer if the selectors had had the sense to give him the chance, but instead they preferred the likes of Liam Plunkett and Matthew Hoggard.

Irani and Adam Hollioake are about the only ones who come close to backing-up your suggestion TBH.

 

[Richard]

Trescothick was picked on natural ability in 2000 that Fletcher saw coming off the same somerset roads, the rest is history.

Knight is one of few players who defied "tradition" & transferred OD domestic form to the international stage.

Trescothick has actually always been a good domestic OD player. It's no surprise he did well in ODIs when picked.

 

[zaremba]

Watching the game tonight it occurred to me that the hapless South Africans could learn a lot from the England county system. The problems with the Saffer system are
(1) too few teams
(2) not enough cricket
(3) too many players jumping ship to a superior competition in the Northern Hemisphere

Luckily the Saffer hierarchy will have plenty of time to contemplate the wisdom of following the English model over the next week or two.

 

[Jamee999]

Haa, you all these stats yo. Have you ever seen these two cats bat?

 

[GIMH]

Watching the game tonight it occurred to me that the hapless South Africans could learn a lot from the England county system. The problems with the Saffer system are
(1) too few teams
(2) not enough cricket
(3) too many players jumping ship to a superior competition in the Northern Hemisphere

Luckily the Saffer hierarchy will have plenty of time to contemplate the wisdom of following the English model over the next week or two.

 

[Jungle Jumbo]

Watching the game tonight it occurred to me that the hapless South Africans could learn a lot from the England county system. The problems with the Saffer system are
(1) too few teams
(2) not enough cricket
(3) too many players jumping ship to a superior competition in the Northern Hemisphere

Luckily the Saffer hierarchy will have plenty of time to contemplate the wisdom of following the English model over the next week or two.

Haha, played.

 

[Richard]

Watching the game tonight it occurred to me that the hapless South Africans could learn a lot from the England county system. The problems with the Saffer system are
(1) too few teams
(2) not enough cricket
(3) too many players jumping ship to a superior competition in the Northern Hemisphere

Luckily the Saffer hierarchy will have plenty of time to contemplate the wisdom of following the English model over the next week or two.

(I don't get posts composed exclusively of a big red X)

 

[Jungle Jumbo]

(I don't get posts composed exclusively of a big red X)

It did, in reply to Aussie's "Have you seen these two cats play?" comment, have a picture of two cats and a caption reading something like "I canz be da keeperz."

 

[aussie]

As I said, Davies has hit 3 sixes in all List A cricket this year, yet still strikes at comfortably more than a run a ball - one of only 2 players who has managed this in England this season.

Aussie's argument has no logic to it whatsoever.

As i debated with you before, you are placing too much emphasis on the stats in List A cricket. That is historically proven to be very poor guide to judging how players may go in ODI cricket for ENG.

Using the 2009 OD averages that you got those stats from. Look at James Foster, he has a SR rate of 112, with 15 sixes. Now surely you are not going to tell me, Foster is capable of replicating that in ODI cricket now?.

At the end of the day i'm not forcing my view on anyone. Forgetting what the averages say, what i've seen of Davies & Kiewsetter on TV. IF in the future ENG want an ODI & T20 keeper to bat up the order (which is up for debate), Kiewsetter if picked is the more natural hitter & he is more likely to replicate that at ODI level IMO.

 

[aussie]

Alleyne, for all his natural talent, was never a star at domestic OD level. Alistair Brown likewise.

So it's no surprise they didn't star at international level either.

Alleyne was not the greatest yea. But he was part of that really successful gloucestershire OD side in the early 2000s. Usually you would expect in your domestic competition the best side would give you some international quality players & Alleyne feel short of that.

Ali Brown well from you can score 268 in a OD game & remain one of the most destructive batsmen in domestic OD cricket for years, but yet look so far off the mark at international level. Backs up my overall point that success in our domestic OD competition 90% does not equal ODI success. You of all people should know this well.

Loye never got a chance - he was 34 before he made his debut FFS.

I would say Loye only warranted a chance from like the summer 05 as an ODI opener. I rememeber calling for his place alot back then since i really thought he was just the attacking opener along with Trescothick ENG was looking for heading into the 06 CT & 07 WC.

When he went down to AUS, i saw the pace of Lee etc really exposed some technical faults in his game (although he still showed he could clear the infied & be very innovative), that i never spotted seein him bat for Lancashire. Which again proves domestic OD success does not equal ODI success. Since in a way i guess Loye never really faced 90 mph bowling alot & he was seriously exposed.

Ealham was a very fine ODI player for a time and would have been for much, much longer if the selectors had had the sense to give him the chance, but instead they preferred the likes of Liam Plunkett and Matthew Hoggard.

Well when Plunkett was first played in late 05 & when last Hoggard last played
back in 05 (i think). Ealham chances of being picked where definately gone AFAIC. If Ealham warranted a recall was probably before WC 2003

Irani and Adam Hollioake are about the only ones who come close to backing-up your suggestion TBH.

In a perfect sense yea, but the others do too as well.

 

[aussie]

Trescothick has actually always been a good domestic OD player. It's no surprise he did well in ODIs when picked.

Was never really following domestic cricket that closely in late 90s & in 2000 when Trescothick was picked. But you sure his OD stats was always solid ATT, even though Fletcher basically picked him based on one innings he was impressed by?

 

[Hambledon Harry]

I'm probably a traditionalist, and find Div One county cricket preferable to a lot of so called "test matches" - for example, those v Windies this May.

Also, 50 over County cricket was far better than most odi's, because the context of the competition gave them matches meaning - the Fun for players and supporters of quarters, semis and then the Lords final.

But watching Derbyshires dross bowling v Essex on Saturday really does make you wonder, I've seen much better at club level.

And when you look at a map it starts you wondering. A proper cyclist could watch the first ball of a Twenty20 at Trent Bridge, cycle to Derby, have a pint, cycle to Leicester, have another, and cycle back to Trent Bridge in time to see the game end - perhaps even stopping off at Loughborough on the way if he felt like it.

And, surprise surprise, Derby and Leicester have been amongst the worst offenders, Kolpak wise.

What is the point of 3 counties so close together? Whilst its nice to have lots of cricket to watch, it's obvious there's too much for players, particularly bowlers to sustain top level intensity - it's hard enough watching ten days on the trot!

So merging De, Le and Notts would give 16 counties, 2 groups of 8, which fits the (good, short) format of the Champions Trophy for a few one day comps spread through the season to generate money.

But I seem to recall Loughborough educated Collier, the ECBs £225,000 a year CEO was at Leicester before Notts, so I guess it's unlikely

On Tres - Mushtaq (in his book) didn't rate him as good as Lathwell natural talent wise, but strong on application, desire to learn etc, which I found interesting, as a bloke who doesn't move his feet usually looks more like a flair player.

I saw a Somerset game this year were they fielded 7 non qualified palyers, and Tres who's not available... and Clarke was Chairman there recently...

Whilst the changes for next year, only one non-qualified player has to be sensible England Team wise, they may well kill County Cricket off as a spectacle for those of us that love it - I hope not, but people don't seem to have realised how much difference it is going to make - Sussex for example put Collymore, Chawla, Goodwin and Smith out v Yorks and still lost - next year they'll only be able to use one of them, won't they?

Only found this site yesterday, hopefully we can keep each other amused during the winter months ahead!

 

[superkingdave]

Welcome Harry, the more people interested in the county scene around here the better.

I wonder what a combined Der/Lei/Northats side would look like, you might be able to make a decent side out of the three of them. Leicestershire for their part, have actually brought through a few promising young English players of late, certainly I think sides that produce the England players will have more relavence and I think counties might be coming to realise that.