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All-Time World XIs: Discussion Thread

subshakerz

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
capt_Luffy said:
Go with Sangakkara. Better batsman (definitely ATG) over career and kept to Murali in close to 50 Tests. Can't beat that up. Warne-Gilly in the first and Murali-Sanga in the 2nd is some nice development as well. Walcott and Sangakkara fighting might just let Knott to sneak ahead
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Ok I will switch to Sanga
 
Johan

Johan

Hall of Fame Member
Steyn beating Ambrose would've been more realistic than him beating Barnes tbh, it would look really silly if the guy regarded as the undisputed GOAT until Marshall and Warne doesn't make the Second XI
 
kyear2

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
subshakerz said:
No you are assuming what a no.3 greatest cricketer HAS to be like.

So are Gilly and Warne greater cricketers than Hadlee and McGrath because they have confirmed places in an ATG XI and the latter do not? Maybe it's just the dynamics of the team selection.

If I was present at the first round vote, you know that Imran would have been selected over McGrath and you would be whining over how the second greatest bowler ever can't make the ATG XI.
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I swear to God that you loose all objectivity or logic to understand what's being said.

Didn't say it goes by ranking, didn't say you rank the players and that's how they're selected.

What I said was, and shouldn't have to repeat it because it was verbatim,

If Imran Khan is as some people like to imply, clearly the 3rd greatest player of all time, and as some intimate better than Sir Garry and as such, in the same pantheon as the other two, he makes the XI here.

Following on, not only does he make the XI here (and everywhere for that matter as the other two do), but it would be closer to unanimous as the other two are, and not reliant on a single vote.

And for the record, if Red also was around it wouldn't have gone to the tie breaker either.

The lack of logic that leads to the follow up, "but" retorts, rasing ridiculous strawman arguments, while refusing to deal with the actual statement itself is the definition of denial.

So to be clear, and to repeat. No one's saying it goes by order of greatness, it's a dynamic team, but if said player was so revered and clearly ranked as the 3rd, or to the extreme, 2nd best player of all time, he makes the team in a canter.
 
kyear2

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
subshakerz said:
Who is arguing that? We are arguing for a better bowling attack. The second ATG XI has a more rounded and effective attack than the first.
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It also has a batting lineup that doesn't compete with the first one.

And with a bowling attack that includes Barnes and Murali, a superior bowler will be giving up overs to give Miller enough overs to justify his selection.

Miller was most effective with the new ball, you're giving him the new ball over statistically and anecdotally two of the 5 best new ball bowlers of all time?

And in the process you're also attempting to downgrade the wicket-keeping which will impact the effectiveness of the other bowlers as well.

Third team, sure, but with the players you have available at the moment, it doesn't make sense.
 
subshakerz

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
kyear2 said:
If Imran Khan is as some people like to imply, clearly the 3rd greatest player of all time, and as some intimate better than Sir Garry and as such, in the same pantheon as the other two, he makes the XI here.
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Let me help you. The majority here, including myself, consider Bradman and Sobers far above all other cricketers.

Imran might be the more popular choice for no.3 but that doesn't mean he is seen as in the same class by CW consensus, with some exceptions.

The same way you consistently misrepresent the supposed perceived gaps between ATG bowlers you misrepresent the perceived gap between Sobers and Imran.

And regardless, I explained. Imran would have been in the first ATG XI had I voted in time.
 
kingkallis

kingkallis

International Coach
subshakerz said:
Let me help you. The majority here, including myself, consider Bradman and Sobers far above all other cricketers.

Imran might be the more popular choice for no.3 but that doesn't mean he is seen as in the same class by CW consensus, with some exceptions.

The same way you consistently misrepresent the supposed perceived gaps between ATG bowlers you misrepresent the perceived gap between Sobers and Imran.

And regardless, I explained. Imran would have been in the first ATG XI had I voted in time.
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Same way, Steyn would have been in 2nd if I voted in time. He deserved it more than Barnes. Barnes maybe in 3rd or 4th for 'me'.
 
subshakerz

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
kyear2 said:
It also has a batting lineup that doesn't compete with the first one.

And with a bowling attack that includes Barnes and Murali, a superior bowler will be giving up overs to give Miller enough overs to justify his selection.

Miller was most effective with the new ball, you're giving him the new ball over statistically and anecdotally two of the 5 best new ball bowlers of all time?

And in the process you're also attempting to downgrade the wicket-keeping which will impact the effectiveness of the other bowlers as well.

Third team, sure, but with the players you have available at the moment, it doesn't make sense.
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I have already explained. Miller is mostly used in situations like second new ball, roughing up bats with the shorter one, getting tails out, etc.

And he won't replace Murali overs but will be used when a spinner is not optimal. Early days of tests and pace friendly tracks.

Just dont be so bummed just because Kallis couldn't make it.
 
kingkallis

kingkallis

International Coach
subshakerz said:
I have already explained. Miller is mostly used in situations like second new ball, roughing up bats with the shorter one, getting tails out, etc.

And he won't replace Murali overs but will be used when a spinner is not optimal. Early days of tests and pace friendly tracks.

Just dont be so bummed just because Kallis couldn't make it.
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Kallis at No.6 would be a waste though. I'd have loved to see him at 4 in place of Smith. Maybe he will do better at No.4 in the 3rd team.

Hope somebody runs the Sim this time too.
 
kingkallis

kingkallis

International Coach
Johan said:
If it comes to 4th XI, Barnes may as well not make it. Voting him in the 4th XI would be extremely disrespectful.
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Well, people are not even sure if he bowled fast or medium fast. Steyn, I have seen all his 439 dismissals and would prefer to have in 'my' 2nd XI of ATGs without any doubt.
 
subshakerz

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
kingkallis said:
Kallis at No.6 would be a waste though. I'd have loved to see him at 4 in place of Smith. Maybe he will do better at No.4 in the 3rd team.

Hope somebody runs the Sim this time too.
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I agree, Kallis at 6 was a waste which I argued and folks here we're insisting it doesn't matter. I think Smith could have been at 6.
 
Johan

Johan

Hall of Fame Member
capt_Luffy said:
Not a bad idea. Akram though can also be the 3rd pacer and any of Lindwall, Lillee, Trueman, Donald, Bumrah and Holding won't look out of place as well
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Donald, Holding or Garner for me, Trueman is just Steyn skillwise with an inswinger instead of reverse IE relies on late outswing aka new ball. Lillee liked the new ball too. Bumrah I will vote later.
 
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