*Official* Third Test (Headingley, Leeds) 6–10 July

[flibbertyjibber]

why aren't we talking more about how the Victorian Scott Boland cost the team the game

We are staying quiet on that in the hope you pick him again.

 

[Spark]

Of course it's a selection issue. Conditions and tactics dictate selections to large extent (especially for bowlers).

I think Cummins overbowled himself (particularly 1st innings) because he isn't a very good Captain and because Boland was ordinary. He could have used Marsh more. Why would you need a 4th seamer to keep your main bowlers fresh, then give him a whole 3 overs (1st innings)?

The reason we didn't get 20 wickets is because we didn't have enough runs to defend. The poms haven't batted out a full day yet. Have we taken a second new ball yet this series? If you need another quick to do that, a sprinkle of cement dust on the weeties could be in order, or a chat with Peter Siddle.



Yeah, well, we lost despite our "fourth seamer". You realise you're talking "workload" in an innings that took in a whole 50 overs.. to complete? In a match we lost for not having enough runs to defend?

As to part time spin...Michael Clarke's 3-15 at the SCG says hello. Interestingly we had a no 6 who scored 162 and 61 in the same match. Could be something in that?

That Cummins didn't have the stomach to bowl a new spinner under the circumstances might be understandable, but that is on Cummins. He didn't bowl Marsh much either. In a tight series I wonder if our new spinner might get the Ponting-Hauritz treatment.

No idea what Harris is doing in the squad, but Renshaw should never have been dropped when he was. He hasn't had many opportunities since (including being rushed Johannesburg after the sandpaper incident). Far better recent shield form than Green though, yet from limited matches.

Green is getting to the point where "has promise" might start changing to "had promise". Heard that somewhere before...

Come on, you're not citing Clarke's 3/15 as a basis for selection policy? That was the freak of all freak events, no one ought to be taking that especially seriously when it comes to planning for Tests. This was a rapid Test in no small part due to the pitch, but what if OT is like the last few Tests Australia have played there and it's a batsman's paradise in which anything short of 400 is a good result for the bowling side (like Edgbaston was)? In that case yes you want multiple bowling options so no one bowler can be easily targeted and put massive pressure on the others. You cannot be picking a team on the basis that you'll only bowl 50 overs an innings. That will lead to rapid disaster.

Renshaw's Shield record is absolutely not "far better" than Green's, where did you get that from? Last three seasons for Queensland: 1488 runs @ 48 with with 5 hundreds and 3 fifties. Cameron Green's Shield record during roughly the same period: 1622 runs @ 70 with 6 hundreds and 3 fifties, in fewer games to boot. The periods don't overlap, which is good for Renshaw because the season I omitted for him has him averaging 20.

No one competes with Green on recent Shield record. The bloke is 24, yet you seem to want to stick a fork in him.

 

[CartyDurham]

Yep agree

Do you remember the interviews with him early in career?like a moody teenager.

Exactly. I’m amazed he does a podcast and a bit of punditry

 

[Nintendo]

Come on, you're not citing Clarke's 3/15 as a basis for selection policy? That was the freak of all freak events, no one ought to be taking that especially seriously when it comes to planning for Tests. This was a rapid Test in no small part due to the pitch, but what if OT is like the last few Tests Australia have played there and it's a batsman's paradise in which anything short of 400 is a good result for the bowling side (like Edgbaston was)? In that case yes you want multiple bowling options so no one bowler can be easily targeted and put massive pressure on the others.

Renshaw's Shield record is absolutely not "far better" than Green's, where did you get that from? Last three seasons for Queensland: 1488 runs @ 48 with with 5 hundreds and 3 fifties. Cameron Green's Shield record during roughly the same period: 1622 runs @ 70 with 6 hundreds and 3 fifties. No one competes with Green on recent Shield record.

That's where I really struggle with green. With some people you can just tell them to go back to shield, but his failings in the UK with the bat have been more lapses in concentration and mental stuff than technical flaws. Every time he's played for WA/in the IPL/for AUS-A across format's he's made runs so I don't see how that really helps. He's easily the best middle order batting talent in the country right now and 3 bad test's in the UK aside, he's done perfectly fine. Only reason he's getting pressure on his spot is Mitch Marsh miraculously figuring out test cricket.

 

[Spark]

Also I know it wasn't a big sample and the conditions are vastly different but Renshaw's performances in India were actually disgustingly bad. Absolutely horrendous.

That's where I really struggle with green. With some people you can just tell them to go back to shield, but his failings in the UK with the bat have been more lapses in concentration and mental stuff than technical flaws. Every time he's played for WA/in the IPL/for AUS-A across format's he's made runs so I don't see how that really helps. He's easily the best middle order batting talent in the country right now and 3 bad test's in the UK aside, he's done perfectly fine. Only reason he's getting pressure on his spot is Mitch Marsh miraculously figuring out test cricket.

The thing he absolutely needs IMO is complete backing from team management to go out and just hit the damn thing. The difference in how he plays for Australia in Tests compared to how he batted for WA is vast; he's clearly been sucked into thinking he has to bat "properly" at this level and it's neutering him. It's no coincdence that his best innings, in Hobart, in Galle and then in Ahmedebad, were free scoring ones. If he nicks off, fine. But he needs to play with the sort of freedom MMarsh displayed.

Also like I said literally the only reason this has become a conversation is that casuals don't realise Australia plays away Tests if they're not in England. Anyone who watched the India games in particular knows that Renshaw vs Green is not even a contest on batting alone (before we get to every other aspect of the game).

 

[Carlos]

Not a big fan of Cummins captaincy. Thought his field settings and the way he used his bowlers wasn;t very astute. He is too defensive with his field settings too early on. I would put more fielders in the circle and make them hit it over the top more. He didn't use Murphy astutely. I couldn't have imagined Ponting captaining like him.

 

[Spark]

Not a big fan of Cummins captaincy. Thought his field settings and the way he used his bowlers wasn;t very astute. He is too defensive with his field settings too early on. I would put more fielders in the circle and make them hit it over the top more. He didn't use Murphy astutely. I couldn't have imagined Ponting captaining like him.

Ironically I can absolutely imagine Ponting captaining like him but not as a compliment. Ponting never put everyone back on the fence to the tail but neither has Cummins decided to bowl part timers in a series-on-the-line potential matchwinning moment either.

 

[Spofforth]

Renshaw’s record is padded by an unbeaten double hundred on a road plus he hasn’t fixed his technical issues

Green is a much better player

Got to wonder why NSW players didn't find it a road? So we just ignore double tons now? His century against the Windies? I'm not pushing Renshaw anyway, didn't bring him up. Just responding. It's difficult to believe Green is amongst the best six bats in Australia. He should not be undroppable because "promise". We should have learnt our lesson.

I don't buy the technique claim.

Renshaw 'ready' for second chance in Test arena | cricket.com.au

Queensland opener Matthew Renshaw has made key changes to his batting and mental approach that have…

www.cricket.com.au

 

[shortpitched713]

Congrats to England. Held their nerve well.

Actually think Australian batting has the most to answer for.

 

[Nintendo]

Got to wonder why NSW players didn't find it a road? So we just ignore double tons now? His century against the Windies? I'm not pushing Renshaw anyway, didn't bring him up. Just responding. It's difficult to believe Green is amongst the best six bats in Australia. He should not be undroppable because "promise". We should have learnt our lesson.

I don't buy the technique claim.

Renshaw 'ready' for second chance in Test arena | cricket.com.au

Queensland opener Matthew Renshaw has made key changes to his batting and mental approach that have…

www.cricket.com.au

Smith, marnus, head and usman are all better and pucovski is on his level when he's fit, but who else is as good or better than green purely on batting? Show me another bat who's had shield runs green did before and after his debut, has batted aswell as green has at test level and has the Aus-A runs green has? I don't think it's fair to gauge renshaws ability as a Test opener based on his efforts in india, but he was still absolutely terrible.

 

[91Jmay]

Not a big fan of Cummins captaincy. Thought his field settings and the way he used his bowlers wasn;t very astute. He is too defensive with his field settings too early on. I would put more fielders in the circle and make them hit it over the top more. He didn't use Murphy astutely. I couldn't have imagined Ponting captaining like him.

Those tactics have worked well thus far in the main to be fair for the top order, so disagree he is too defensive early on. Problem is just constant short balls to tail (which both teams struggle with Stokes ridiculous knocks have just amplified it and in this test our tail is miles better).

He does over bowl himself though, which is always why I don't like bowler captains. How he used Murphy in this test was really poor, he looked decent early first spell and literally had Stokes twice (albeit second drop is obviously on him) then his confidence evaporated after getting carted and he bowled way too quick.

 

[Ashes81]

I'd be surprised if Warner didn't play in this test given the lack of alternatives.

He's still as likely as any of the possible replacements to make some runs.

Also his catching in the slips is outstanding.

 

[91Jmay]

Would be better to open with Marnus and put Green back in than Warner. Warner was awful in England at his peak let alone now he is washed, not even just Broad Anderson has him a heap of times as well.

Fingers crossed he plays.

 

[Prince EWS]

Would be better to open with Marnus and put Green back in than Warner. Warner was awful in England at his peak let alone now he is washed, not even just Broad Anderson has him a heap of times as well.

Fingers crossed he plays.

Marnus is actually my preferred option as opener too - I think he'd be really good there - but then we have to move Smith and Head up one as well and it just becomes too much unless they think of it as a medium-term solution beyond this series, which is very likely isn't.

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

I'd be surprised if Warner didn't play in this test given the lack of alternatives.

He's still as likely as any of the possible replacements to make some runs.

Also his catching in the slips is outstanding.

Renshaw does have 2 hundreds in his last two FC games

 

[Prince EWS]

Should also probably add that while I think Marnus is temperamentally suited to opening and *usually* technically tight enough for it, he's currently chasing everything so making him open in England right now might not be the short term solution it seems anyway.

 

[social]

Got to wonder why NSW players didn't find it a road? So we just ignore double tons now? His century against the Windies? I'm not pushing Renshaw anyway, didn't bring him up. Just responding. It's difficult to believe Green is amongst the best six bats in Australia. He should not be undroppable because "promise". We should have learnt our lesson.

I don't buy the technique claim.

Renshaw 'ready' for second chance in Test arena | cricket.com.au

Queensland opener Matthew Renshaw has made key changes to his batting and mental approach that have…

www.cricket.com.au

Front foot goes across rather than out to the pitch of the ball

Makes him a candidate for lbw (as he’s playing around his front foot) & nicking off

Been that way since his debut

I like Renners and would pick him before Harris but there’s a reason why he’s not better

 

[91Jmay]

Marnus is actually my preferred option as opener too - I think he'd be really good there - but then we have to move Smith and Head up one as well and it just becomes too much unless they think of it as a medium-term solution beyond this series, which is very likely isn't.

Move Head above Smith, means we'd probably just try to bomb him with the newer ball as we are dunces whenever he comes in so could help.

 

[Spark]

He's played 100 FC games and averages sub-40 anyway, and it's not like he played in the Shield era of greentop menaces; pitches have often been quite flat in the Shield in the last few seasons. I don't think there's much to suggest he'll be anything more than a passable batsman at Test level - and the way he batted in India really was remarkably bad for the brief time he was at the crease. Looked like a genuine tailender and given the state of our tail that's no mean feat.

 

[social]

Said it before the series

Marnus is the logical replacement as he’s basically opening anyway

If not him then Mitch

I would honestly call up Maxwell before selecting Harris