Is there a team that can beat this Asian ODI XI?

[Himannv]

News coming out from SL that some guy called Himannv could have solved the debt crisis if he picked Sanga in a fantasy XI but he refused to do so

I like to state my innocence and conviction in my own beliefs and blame the government and Sanga here.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Kapil Dev is the ultimate hard core Allrounder from SC.
World class bowler + match turning batsman + ATG fielder + X factor.. Delivered when it is mattered, performed simultaneously with bat and ball. 4 ATG bowlers + Near ATG Kapil is more than enough for any team.

 

[subshakerz]

Kapil Dev is the ultimate hard core Allrounder from SC.
World class bowler + match turning batsman + ATG fielder + X factor.. Delivered when it is mattered, performed simultaneously with bat and ball. 4 ATG bowlers + Near ATG Kapil is more than enough for any team.

Wasnt as good as Imran and you only need one allrounder along with Wasim. Batting Kapil at no. 8 is a waste anyways. Kapil is an ideal 12th man.

 

[subshakerz]

Bumrah needs to prove longevity.
58 innings 128 wickets at 22

Kapil after 58 innings, 131 wickets at 26 in lesser supporting conditions with zero support. ( + capable of Match turning ATG performances with bat )

You picked his best phase and he still doesnt match those other bowlers. Will gladly take Shoaib or Asif over him. In fact, Asif and Wasim with the new ball will be deadly.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Wasnt as good as Imran and you only need one allrounder along with Wasim. Batting Kapil at no. 8 is a waste anyways. Kapil is an ideal 12th man.

I dont understand, how is Kapil at 6/7/8 is a waste? I will gladly select a number 11 with a batting avg of 50 and a 6th bowler with a 25 avg if possible.
Akram at 8 means, 6 / 7 gone team gone.

There is no SC bowler clearly better than Kapil ( apart from Akram, Murali, Imran and Waquar.. They are already in. Bumrah is a wait and see ) and he is much better batsman than most other options.

In fact, in the entire history of world cricket, there is no single better batsman than Kapil, who is also inarguably better bowler than Kapil. ( I dont consider Miller inarguably better bowler than Kapil.)

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

You picked his best phase and he still doesnt match those other bowlers. Will gladly take Shoaib or Asif over him. In fact, Asif and Wasim with the new ball will be deadly.

I didn't pick anything, I was saying Bumrah needs to wait at least until he reaches 250 wickets to deserve a place in an SC AT 11, even then It would be Bumrah vs Waquar.
( Kapil reached 250 wickets from 60 or so matches)

 

[Bitmap]

Not having Jadeja in 2 AT Asian Xi is a complete blasphemy..

Possibly can have him instead of Shakib in the alternate XI since batting depth is quite good (Kapil is at 8 and Pant is a competent bat himself) so maybe a superior bowler in Jadeja can suit better.
But I don't think Jadeja warrants a place in the 1st XI though. Ashwin is the better spinner and Imran, Ashwin and Wasim at 9 is a good enough batting depth IMO.

 

[Bolo.]

Not having Jadeja in 2 AT Asian Xi is a complete blasphemy..

I am aboit to get flamed for this, cos this site tolerates no criticism of Jadeja. But I dont think he belongs in 2 AT Asian sides. I am ofc assuming they are playing at the same time. thwre is only space for him in the 1st team. fast as he is, i dobt think he can run between fields to play for both.

 

[subshakerz]

I dont understand, how is Kapil at 6/7/8 is a waste? I will gladly select a number 11 with a batting avg of 50 and a 6th bowler with a 25 avg if possible.
Akram at 8 means, 6 / 7 gone team gone.

There is no SC bowler clearly better than Kapil ( apart from Akram, Murali, Imran and Waquar.. They are already in. Bumrah is a wait and see ) and he is much better batsman than most other options.

In fact, in the entire history of world cricket, there is no single better batsman than Kapil, who is also inarguably better bowler than Kapil. ( I dont consider Miller inarguably better bowler than Kapil.)

Because in practical terms the lower you play a bowling allrounder down the order the less impact his batting will have.

Most test teams are fine with one quality allrounder and with Wasim there is batting depth.

Unlike in ODIs where you can indulge in having two allrounders in a team or more, test needs more specialists and there are better options than Kapil as one of the five bowlers. Kapil isnt good enough to be picked for his batting or bowling alone and his allround package isnt as useful with Imran already in the side.

In Sc, the combo will clearly be Imran/Wasim/Ashwin or Kumble/Waqar/Murali while outside you can leave Ashwin or Kumble for a worldclass pacer like Shoaib or Asif.

 

[subshakerz]

I didn't pick anything, I was saying Bumrah needs to wait at least until he reaches 250 wickets to deserve a place in an SC AT 11, even then It would be Bumrah vs Waquar.
( Kapil reached 250 wickets from 60 or so matches)

If Bumrah overtakes Waqar, then Waqar and Bumrah can both play outside the SC and Bumrah can play with two spinners and Imran/Wasim in the SC. Kapil isnt needed. He will dilute the bowling quality in an all-time XI.

 

[TheJediBrah]

If Bumrah overtakes Waqar, then Waqar and Bumrah can both play outside the SC and Bumrah can play with two spinners and Imran/Wasim in the SC. Kapil isnt needed. He will dilute the bowling quality in an all-time XI.

Bro you're speaking to Kapil Dev's biggest fan. Probably a relative if not the man himself

 

[ashley bach]

Kapil is an ideal 12th man.

lol don't think this has ever been written down in history before.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

In fact, in the entire history of world cricket, there is no single better batsman than Kapil, who is also inarguably better bowler than Kapil. ( I dont consider Miller inarguably better bowler than Kapil.)

Faulkner

 

[Line and Length]

As I am somewhat a purist in terms of putting Test cricket ahead of ODIs and T20s, I won't claim to have the knowledge of ODI players that many of the posters here possess. However, when I look at the ICC All Time ODI Rankings, I find it difficult to believe anyone might suggest an ATG Asian side could match a Rest of the World combination.

Let us look at the Top 20 All time ICC ODI rankings in the two major disciplines, dividing them into Asia and RoW.

BATTING:

ASIA: 2 Z.Abbas; 6 V.Kohli; 7 J.Miandad; 13 Babar Azam; 16 S.Tendulkar 18 R.Sharma.

RoW: 1 V.Richards; 3 G.Chappell; 4 D.Gower; 5 D.Jones 8 B.Lara; 9 AB de Villiers 10 Hashim Amla; 11 D Haynes; 12 G.Kirsten;
14 A.Lamb; 15 G.Greenidge; 17 M.Bevan; 19 D.Warner; 20 K.Wessels

BOWLING:

ASIA: 4 M.Muralidaran 12 C.Vaas; 14 Maninder Singh; 15 Wasim Akram; 16 Kapil Dev 19 J.Bumrah.

RoW: 1 J.Garner; 2 R.Hadlee: 3 R.Hadlee; 5. G.McGrath; 6 E.Chatfield; 7. D.Lillee; 8 M.Marshall; 9 C.Ambrose; 10 M.Holding;
11 B.Willis; 13 B.Lee; 16 A.Roberts; 18 G.Lawson; J.Gillespie

Of course, all-rounders are essential in any form of cricket, so let's consider the Top 10 All Time ODI All Rounders according to ICC rankings. Understandably, some already appear on either the bowling or batting rankings.

ASIA: 1 Kapil Dev; 10 Imran Khan; 11 R.Shastri; 16 S.Jayasuriya; 18 Shakib al Hasan; 20 Angelo Mathews

RoW: 2 G.Chappell; 3 A.Flintoff; 4 V.Richards; 5 L.Kleusner; 6 C.Gayle: 7 J.Kallis; 8 S.Waugh; 9 S.Pollock; 12 H.Cronje; 13 R.Hadlee;
14 I.Botham; 15 L.Cairns; 17 C.Hooper; 19 S.Watson

Given that the Rest of World players outnumber the Asia players 14 to 6 in each list and that 4 of the top 5 in each list are RoW players, I find it hard to understand how one could argue that an ATG Asian ODI side could match a Rest of World side. Obviously there is a big discrepancy between the opinions of many CW members and the rankings of the ICC. However, I think that an outsider looking in would put greater weighting on the latter.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Faulkner

While James was an unparalleled ODI finisher with bat and ball, Kapil Dev might have achieved slightly more in Test cricket as a result of his circumstances

Now undoubtedly had James Faulkner been Indian he would have 500+ Test wickets at ~25 and averaged 40+ with the bat, and had Kapil been Australian he would have been unlikely to even get a debut.

However we can only judge people on what they achieved so this might be a bit of a premature call on your part

 

[Migara]

Bumrah needs to prove longevity.
58 innings 128 wickets at 22

Kapil after 58 innings, 131 wickets at 26 in lesser supporting conditions with zero support. ( + capable of Match turning ATG performances with bat )

At 58 innings Shoaib has taken 125 wickets @24.5 at a SR of 45.2 on a batting dominated era, in the worse period of history of Pakistan.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Sunil Gavaskar
Virender Sehwag
Kumar Sangakkara
Sachin Tendulkar
Javed Miandad
MS Dhoni+
Imran Khan
R Ashwin
Wasim Akram
Waqar Younis
M Muralitharan

Alternate side:

Saeed Anwar8
Hanif Mohammad
Rahul Dravid
Younis Khan
Virat Kohli
Rishabh Pant+
Shakib al Hasan
Kapil Dev
Anil Kumble
Jasprit Bumrah
Shoaib Akhtar

I'd pick better keepers even if inferior with the bat: P Jayawardene, F Engineer, or Wasim Bari

 

[h_hurricane]

The reason I picked Kapil in my team is that there are 2 non Asian countries where he is arguably the best asian bowler ever, and unarguably among top two. This is of course before Bumrah arrived, and I will wait a while longer before rating him.

When an asian team travels overseas, at least 3 gun bowlers are required in every country. Best on their historical performance, these are the best bowlers in individual countries.

Australia - Kapil, Wasim, Imran
West Indies - Imran, Kapil, Waqar
England - Imran, Wasim, Waqar
NZ - Imran, Wasim, Waqar
Sub Continent - no need to discuss
SA - an issue because of low sample size, however I would still bank a couple of them to show up well.

So, it is not about picking the 3 best bowlers, but covering all bases by picking a 4th quick. Also, Waqar's record is a bit suspect in a couple of countries unlike Imran and Wasim.

Also, Kapil had the unique ability to turn around a match in a session, with the bat. He is the only one in the bottom 5 in that team who could that. Imran needed time to score big runs and is a solid bat, not just a counter attacking one. Akram could play odd blistering knock, though nowhere as good as Kapil in that aspect.

 

[subshakerz]

The reason I picked Kapil in my team is that there are 2 non Asian countries where he is arguably the best asian bowler ever, and unarguably among top two. This is of course before Bumrah arrived, and I will wait a while longer before rating him.

When an asian team travels overseas, at least 3 gun bowlers are required in every country. Best on their historical performance, these are the best bowlers in individual countries.

Australia - Kapil, Wasim, Imran
West Indies - Imran, Kapil, Waqar
England - Imran, Wasim, Waqar
NZ - Imran, Wasim, Waqar
Sub Continent - no need to discuss
SA - an issue because of low sample size, however I would still bank a couple of them to show up well.

So, it is not about picking the 3 best bowlers, but covering all bases by picking a 4th quick. Also, Waqar's record is a bit suspect in a couple of countries unlike Imran and Wasim.

Also, Kapil had the unique ability to turn around a match in a session, with the bat. He is the only one in the bottom 5 in that team who could that. Imran needed time to score big runs and is a solid bat, not just a counter attacking one. Akram could play odd blistering knock, though nowhere as good as Kapil in that aspect.

Come on, if you are going to go this far then you can start picking different squads for different countries and the idea of a somewhat fixed ATG XI is pointless. Why not play Laxman in Australia/SA and Zaheer Abbas in England? Saeed Anwar in SENA and Sehwag in the subcontinent? Drop Murali in Australia and play Kumble. You will end up having only common 5-6 players in the squad.

Btw, I dont care if he is 2-3 points behind, no way do I drop Wasim for Kapil in any country.

The most you can do is have 1-2 variations in a SC and non-SC ATG XIs.

 

[h_hurricane]

Come on, if you are going to go this far then you can start picking different squads for different countries and the idea of a somewhat fixed ATG XI is pointless. Why not play Laxman in Australia/SA and Zaheer Abbas in England? Saeed Anwar in SENA and Sehwag in the subcontinent? Drop Murali in Australia and play Kumble. You will end up having only common 5-6 players in the squad.

Btw, I dont care if he is 2-3 points behind, no way do I drop Wasim for Kapil in any country.

The most you can do is have 1-2 variations in a SC and non-SC ATG XIs.

I never said I will drop Wasim for Kapil. As I said, I only picked him as a 4th quick. There are different ways of picking teams. Your team would work, so will mine.

Also comparing Zaheer to Laxman is pointless. Neither had a secondary skill, but Kapil had, compared to the bowlers you mentioned.

On a side note, you really need to stop over critiquing someone else's teams. My post was a stand alone one, not a response to someone else's.
Sometimes it makes sense to respect other's opinions, as long as they are not moronic, even though they absolutely do not match with yours.

So Kapil stays in my team for the reasons I explained, though I understand why you do not pick him, as you have explained .