Is there a team that can beat this Asian ODI XI?

[Fuller Pilch]

if you can't manage a 40 plus ODI average you don't belong in an all-time XI middle order, unless you are an allrounder.

It depends on the era, strike rate, not outs, where you bat etc. Even Martin Crowe "only" averaged 38.5 and Inzy 39.5. Allan Border (who had to play A LOT of ODIs vs peak Garner and co.) averaged 30.6

 

[subshakerz]

Man to man rating

Sachin > Lara
Dhoni > Gilly
Rohit < Ponting
Abbas < Viv
Kohli < AB
Aravinda < Beven
Kapil > Klusner
Imran < Hadlee
Akram > Mcgrath
Saqlain > Warne
Waqar < Garner

5 < 6

Why do you put Aravinda and not Dhoni at 6? That messes the entire order.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Azhar?

I don't get the Sanga hate. At the end of his day, he has a very good record. I can understand Abbas being better but not convinced about the others. Maybe Miandad?

Maybe his record flatters him but to me, if you can't manage a 40 plus ODI average you don't belong in an all-time XI middle order, unless you are an allrounder.

Averages exploded post 2003 or so, and even more so post 2010. Sanga played in a very high scoring era and still had a lower strike rate than Aravinda who debuted 25 years before him. His ODI record was a very mediocre avg 36, SR 74 until the beginning of 2010. He scored very heavily after that but ODI stats had inflated so much by then that even in his dominant period there were several others doing better.

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

He can be picked as a wicketkeeper bat because the other options for an Asia Xi aren't good, but as purely a batsman he was nowhere near as good as he was in tests. Inzi has a far superior ODI record all things considered.

 

[subshakerz]

It depends on the era. Strike rate is also an issue.

No. A 40 plus average was a pretty standard measure of top level quality in ODI cricket in the 80s and 90s.

It is just as conditions became easier, you had guys like Dhoni, ABD, Kohli and other jumping into the 50 zone.

 

[subshakerz]

Averages exploded post 2003 or so, and even more so post 2010. Sanga played in a very high scoring era and still had a lower strike rate than Aravinda who debuted 25 years before him. His ODI record was a very mediocre avg 36, SR 74 until the beginning of 2010. He scored very heavily after that but ODI stats had inflated so much by then that even in his dominant period there were several others doing better.

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

He can be picked as a wicketkeeper bat because the other options for an Asia Xi aren't good, but as purely a batsman he was nowhere near as good as he was in tests. Inzi has a far superior ODI record all things considered.

I don't see what's wrong for Sanga to have a 5-year peak at the end and ending up with a goodish record. He could have peaked earlier and declined and people wouldnt have as much an issue.

To compare, Sanga has almost basically the same overall record as Ponting, and they both benefited from the same era, yet Ponting is considered an ODI ATG while Sanga is immediately written off?

You can downgrade Sanga which is fine. But then you cant pretend someone averaging 34 with a slightly better SR like DeSilva is a better option for an all-time XI middle order. That kind of average is not going to build huge scores consistently, and his SR is not high enough to offset the low average.

 

[ankitj]

3500 > 2500. Take that Socrates

I really want to expand on this.

Look, by 4500 years ago Indus valley civilization flourished in present day Pakistan. By 3500 years ago swathes of present day India had flourishing civilizations with great literature and culture. Back then Lord Rama's incursions into present day Sri Lanka were well documented. Pretty sure something was up in present day Bangaldesh too around that time; if not, we will just drop Shakib from the team.

The white people world on the other hand had comparable civilization only since about 2500 years ago. And honestly, I am being charitable by letting British people (whose descendants dominate cricket in AUS, NZ and SA) claim ancient Greek heritage. In reality, highest civilizational achievement of people in Britain at the time was balancing stones on top of stones.

Despite all this if you think ROW XI can beat Asian XI, lol

 

[OverratedSanity]

I don't see what's wrong for Sanga to have a 5-year peak at the end and ending up with a goodish record. He could have peaked earlier and declined and people wouldnt have as much an issue.

No I think if he'd peaked earlier like ponting he'd be looked at more favourable because even though the 2000s were batting friendly, odis got even more batter friendly in the 2010s.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

I feel like Ponting was already well past his prime by the time ODI scoring rates statetd to surge in the early 2010s honestly, can recall him doing sfa about then and then him getting replaced at 3 by Peter bloody Forrest of all people

Have no dog in this fight whatsoever but thought it is something worth noting


EDIT: what OS said

 

[Burgey]

Look, by 4500 years ago Indus valley civilization flourished in present day Pakistan. By 3500 years ago swathes of present day India had flourishing civilizations with great literature and culture.

So you're saying Pakistan about 1,000 x > India?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Man to man rating

Sachin > Lara
Dhoni > Gilly
Rohit < Ponting
Abbas < Viv
Kohli < AB
Aravinda < Beven
Kapil > Klusner
Imran < Hadlee
Akram > Mcgrath
Saqlain > Warne
Waqar < Garner

5 < 6

Sachin > Lara
Dhoni < Gilly *
Rohit > Ponting *
Abbas < Viv
Kohli < AB
Aravinda < Beven
Kapil < Klusner *
Imran > Hadlee *
Akram < Mcgrath *
Saqlain > Warne
Waqar < Garner

4 < 7

 

[_00_deathscar]

So you're saying Pakistan about 1,000 x > India?

I think what he’s saying is it’s all India anyway

 

[Shady Slim]

The white people world on the other hand had comparable civilization only since about 2500 years ago. And honestly, I am being charitable by letting British people claim ancient Greek heritage. In reality, highest civilizational achievement of people in Britain at the time was balancing stones on top of stones.

tbf probably the only part of history where britain wasn't on net a bad guy

 

[subshakerz]

No I think if he'd peaked earlier like ponting he'd be looked at more favourable because even though the 2000s were batting friendly, odis got even more batter friendly in the 2010s.

I guess my point is more about overrating DeSilva than underrating Sanga. I think even accounting for Sanga's number boost I would be comfortable with someone who at least has a record of scoring heavily, albeit in favorable conditions, vs. someone not even averaging 35 in the middle order.

 

[subshakerz]

Sachin > Lara
Dhoni < Gilly *
Rohit > Ponting *
Abbas < Viv
Kohli < AB
Aravinda < Beven
Kapil < Klusner *
Imran > Hadlee *
Akram < Mcgrath *
Saqlain > Warne
Waqar < Garner

4 < 7

I think accounting for chasing record, I would put Kohli over AB.

Klusener is a better bat than Kapil but Kapil is a much better bowler so hard to say.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I think accounting for chasing record, I would put Kohli over AB.

Klusener is a better bat than Kapil but Kapil is a much better bowler so hard to say.

Most of those are reasonably debatable, except McGrath > Wasim

 

[Burgey]

Might get a bit cheeky and put Sobers in my non-SC ATXI as the all rounder. Bat him at six and he can bowl seam, finger spin or wrist spin, is widely regarded as an ATG fielder and in the argument as the second best batsman of AT behind Bradman. Averaged 38 in list A one dayers with the bat and 22(!) with the ball. Handy.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Why do you put Aravinda and not Dhoni at 6? That messes the entire order.

Dhoni bats at 6. His role demands the comparison with Gilly.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Might get a bit cheeky and put Sobers in my non-SC ATXI as the all rounder. Bat him at six and he can bowl seam, finger spin or wrist spin, is widely regarded as an ATG fielder and in the argument as the second best batsman of AT behind Bradman. Averaged 38 in list A one dayers with the bat and 22(!) with the ball. Handy.

In that case, we demand Ranji to play in our alltime test 11.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Most of those are reasonably debatable, except McGrath > Wasim

Yes.. Akram better in bowling, batting and Fielding.

 

[Burgey]

In that case, we demand Ranji to play in our alltime test 11.

He played for England though

Sobers played one ODI for WI